May 06, 2019
Movement to Eliminate 12th Amendment
Timothy Birdnow
A movement has begun to elect the Vice President of the United States. According to ABC News:
What they also probably don't know is that the Veep used to be the runner up in the national election. In other words, Hillary Clinton would be the Vice President today! Can you imagine the bile and backstabbing with such a situation? But it made sense at the time; the Framers believed there would be half a dozen candidates for President and that the representatives of the Electoral College would vote for their home state man, so they instituted the Vice Presidency as a second choice candidate.
Also, the Veep was not a member of the Administration, and in some ways was not even a part of the Executive Wing, his primary responsibility being to Preside over the senate. There was a great deal of argument over whether the Vice President was a member of the Executive or Judicial branch of government.
The original dichotomy was shattered in the election of 1796 when John Adams - a Federalist - won out over Thomas Jefferson - a Democratic Republican. The two were bitter rivals and hated each-other but Jefferson was Adams' Vice President. Jefferson did everything he could to hamstring and frustrate Adams.
This went on until the passage of the 12th Amendment prior to the 1804 election. The `1th stated:
The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;
The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;
The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.[a]
The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States
End excerpt.
This replaced Article I Section 3 which stated:
The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse [sic] by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse [sic] the President. But in chusing [sic] the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse [sic] from them by Ballot the Vice President.
End excerpt.
Now, there is perhaps no reason not to hold separate elections for Vice President, but this shatters the idea of continuity in the Executive Branch. It is, of course, a function of the Progressive anger at the election of Donald Trump; even if Trump were to be removed from office they would be stuck with Mike Pence. They want a way to circumvent another President they do not like. It's the same reason they are trying to promote the National Popular Vote Compact, which seeks to make an end-run around the Electoral College.
One thing America does not need is another flashpoint of electoral bitterness.
If anything should be reformed it should be the Judicial branch of government; judges now have enormous power, far more than they were ever intended to wield. Maybe we should divide the courts? Have a branch dealing with criminal law, one with civil law, and one with political implications? And we can limit their tenure of office, and perhaps have a retention election for judges.
The Vice Presidency isn't "worth a bucket of warm piss" as John Nance Garner - 32nd Veep under FDR famously stated. (It's often sanitized as "a bucket of warm spit, but Cactus Jack, as he was known, used the p world.) Why is the Vice Presidency so disdained? Because the Veep is in the shadow of the President. He's basically a gofer for the Big Guy. Change the way he's elected and you change that. But is that really what we want? Do we want endless political infighting in the Executive Branch in such a dangerous world?
Of course, young people, who will be most likely to support this, will know none of this and understand even less. And who knows; they just might get it.
A movement has begun to elect the Vice President of the United States. According to ABC News:
There’s a national push for voters to elect the U.S. vice president separately from the president.
Vice.run, is a campaign that seeks to create a separate and independent ballot line for the vice president in 2020. The group is trying to collect—from all 50 states—voter signatures and pledges in support of the separate vice president election.
I guess these people don't know they would have to amend the Constitution before they could implement this. Vice.run, is a campaign that seeks to create a separate and independent ballot line for the vice president in 2020. The group is trying to collect—from all 50 states—voter signatures and pledges in support of the separate vice president election.
What they also probably don't know is that the Veep used to be the runner up in the national election. In other words, Hillary Clinton would be the Vice President today! Can you imagine the bile and backstabbing with such a situation? But it made sense at the time; the Framers believed there would be half a dozen candidates for President and that the representatives of the Electoral College would vote for their home state man, so they instituted the Vice Presidency as a second choice candidate.
Also, the Veep was not a member of the Administration, and in some ways was not even a part of the Executive Wing, his primary responsibility being to Preside over the senate. There was a great deal of argument over whether the Vice President was a member of the Executive or Judicial branch of government.
The original dichotomy was shattered in the election of 1796 when John Adams - a Federalist - won out over Thomas Jefferson - a Democratic Republican. The two were bitter rivals and hated each-other but Jefferson was Adams' Vice President. Jefferson did everything he could to hamstring and frustrate Adams.
This went on until the passage of the 12th Amendment prior to the 1804 election. The `1th stated:
The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;
The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;
The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.[a]
The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States
End excerpt.
This replaced Article I Section 3 which stated:
The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse [sic] by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse [sic] the President. But in chusing [sic] the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse [sic] from them by Ballot the Vice President.
End excerpt.
Now, there is perhaps no reason not to hold separate elections for Vice President, but this shatters the idea of continuity in the Executive Branch. It is, of course, a function of the Progressive anger at the election of Donald Trump; even if Trump were to be removed from office they would be stuck with Mike Pence. They want a way to circumvent another President they do not like. It's the same reason they are trying to promote the National Popular Vote Compact, which seeks to make an end-run around the Electoral College.
One thing America does not need is another flashpoint of electoral bitterness.
If anything should be reformed it should be the Judicial branch of government; judges now have enormous power, far more than they were ever intended to wield. Maybe we should divide the courts? Have a branch dealing with criminal law, one with civil law, and one with political implications? And we can limit their tenure of office, and perhaps have a retention election for judges.
The Vice Presidency isn't "worth a bucket of warm piss" as John Nance Garner - 32nd Veep under FDR famously stated. (It's often sanitized as "a bucket of warm spit, but Cactus Jack, as he was known, used the p world.) Why is the Vice Presidency so disdained? Because the Veep is in the shadow of the President. He's basically a gofer for the Big Guy. Change the way he's elected and you change that. But is that really what we want? Do we want endless political infighting in the Executive Branch in such a dangerous world?
Of course, young people, who will be most likely to support this, will know none of this and understand even less. And who knows; they just might get it.
Posted by: Timothy Birdnow at
08:28 AM
| No Comments
| Add Comment
Post contains 1301 words, total size 8 kb.
29kb generated in CPU 0.02, elapsed 0.2677 seconds.
35 queries taking 0.2555 seconds, 182 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.
35 queries taking 0.2555 seconds, 182 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.
