September 04, 2022
Fascism IS Socialism
Timothy Birdnow
On Facebook a commenter named Christin Hale made a very astute observation in reply to a guy claiming Fascism is not socialism:
Interestingly, in Mein Kampf, Hitler made a vain attempt to distinguish National Socialism from communist socialism to maintain a sophist distinction from the USSR. He said that once the owners of major corporations are sufficiently controlled to the point they become cronies, there was no need to change their ownership to the state. He was correct. And that's what we have now. Tech, banks, major manufacturers are completely controlled by the leftists in DC. They endorse and enforce the diktats from the socialist-democrat elites. There is no distinction.
Sev Onyskevitch adds:
Fascism equals national socialism.
Same coin, slightly different angle.
Still state control of means of production.
Always through terror and coercion.
Tim adds:
Mussolini had been the editor of Italy's Socialist newspaper. Fascism is NATIONAL socialism. And it emphasizes a neo-pagan religious view of the nation as a god and the state as the church. This goes back to Rousseau, who was the father of socialism and who suggested doing this very thing to eliminate the power of the Church and ingather all power to the state. There is a reason why the Nazis were the National Socialist German Worker's Party. That title was literal. The principle economic difference was that under socialism there is no private ownership while under fascism there are fictional private owners who are totally under the thumb of the government. Instead of owning the means of production outright there are private owners but the government still has total control. In the end the two are the same.
Jane Van Berricklow retorts:
I am not saying that we have gone right instead of left, I’m saying that definitionally what our country is looking at right now is a fascist state not a communist state.. I perfectly well understand that Nazi is national Socialism. I also know that the difference between fascism and communism is a difference between cooperation between state and industry and the subsuming of industry by the state. We continue to live in a country where industry is private but increasingly intertwined with the state but not owned by the state. That is the main difference between fascism and Socialism you can quibble all you want about national Socialism and all that stuff but we live in a fascist state today.
Christin adds:
Jane Van Berricklow you have fallen into the trap set by generations of leftists. They have tried for 65 years to maintain the fiction that "Nazis were right wing". Fascism as you yourself define it is National Socialism. The goals and ends of National Socialism are identical to any other socialism. There is no meaningful distinction whether the apparatchiks are ceo's or state employees. By focusing on the narrow, and in this case specious, distinction of "private" ownership you support the leftist mantra the Nazism was right wing. It was not. Sev Onyshkevych is correct.
Tim adds:
Well said Christin Hale! Fascist economics is sometimes referred to as Corporatism and it is a partnership between government and private industry, with Government being far and away the senior partner. Chesterton famously stated that the difference between a "capitalist" and a communist was a bigger paycheck. He was not referring to private enterprise but to the crony capitalism - corporatism - that was in the ascendancy at that time. He understood that Fascism and Marxism were largely the same critter. The really big corporations love Fascism; it eliminates their competition. Nobody starts small businesses that can displace the big guys under a fascist style economy. Government prevents it. We've been neo-fascist for a long time but now are moving into a true fascist economy. I would add the Bolsheviks understood Fascism was the stepping stone to Communism "First Brown then Red" was a common slogan of the Communists before the war. They saw it as the transition between a market-based economy and the dictatorship of the proletariat. The claim Fascims and Naziism are "right wing" started after Hitler attacked the U.S.S.R. They had to justify their war against fellow socialists.
On Facebook a commenter named Christin Hale made a very astute observation in reply to a guy claiming Fascism is not socialism:
Interestingly, in Mein Kampf, Hitler made a vain attempt to distinguish National Socialism from communist socialism to maintain a sophist distinction from the USSR. He said that once the owners of major corporations are sufficiently controlled to the point they become cronies, there was no need to change their ownership to the state. He was correct. And that's what we have now. Tech, banks, major manufacturers are completely controlled by the leftists in DC. They endorse and enforce the diktats from the socialist-democrat elites. There is no distinction.
Sev Onyskevitch adds:
Fascism equals national socialism.
Same coin, slightly different angle.
Still state control of means of production.
Always through terror and coercion.
Tim adds:
Mussolini had been the editor of Italy's Socialist newspaper. Fascism is NATIONAL socialism. And it emphasizes a neo-pagan religious view of the nation as a god and the state as the church. This goes back to Rousseau, who was the father of socialism and who suggested doing this very thing to eliminate the power of the Church and ingather all power to the state. There is a reason why the Nazis were the National Socialist German Worker's Party. That title was literal. The principle economic difference was that under socialism there is no private ownership while under fascism there are fictional private owners who are totally under the thumb of the government. Instead of owning the means of production outright there are private owners but the government still has total control. In the end the two are the same.
Jane Van Berricklow retorts:
I am not saying that we have gone right instead of left, I’m saying that definitionally what our country is looking at right now is a fascist state not a communist state.. I perfectly well understand that Nazi is national Socialism. I also know that the difference between fascism and communism is a difference between cooperation between state and industry and the subsuming of industry by the state. We continue to live in a country where industry is private but increasingly intertwined with the state but not owned by the state. That is the main difference between fascism and Socialism you can quibble all you want about national Socialism and all that stuff but we live in a fascist state today.
Christin adds:
Jane Van Berricklow you have fallen into the trap set by generations of leftists. They have tried for 65 years to maintain the fiction that "Nazis were right wing". Fascism as you yourself define it is National Socialism. The goals and ends of National Socialism are identical to any other socialism. There is no meaningful distinction whether the apparatchiks are ceo's or state employees. By focusing on the narrow, and in this case specious, distinction of "private" ownership you support the leftist mantra the Nazism was right wing. It was not. Sev Onyshkevych is correct.
Tim adds:
Well said Christin Hale! Fascist economics is sometimes referred to as Corporatism and it is a partnership between government and private industry, with Government being far and away the senior partner. Chesterton famously stated that the difference between a "capitalist" and a communist was a bigger paycheck. He was not referring to private enterprise but to the crony capitalism - corporatism - that was in the ascendancy at that time. He understood that Fascism and Marxism were largely the same critter. The really big corporations love Fascism; it eliminates their competition. Nobody starts small businesses that can displace the big guys under a fascist style economy. Government prevents it. We've been neo-fascist for a long time but now are moving into a true fascist economy. I would add the Bolsheviks understood Fascism was the stepping stone to Communism "First Brown then Red" was a common slogan of the Communists before the war. They saw it as the transition between a market-based economy and the dictatorship of the proletariat. The claim Fascims and Naziism are "right wing" started after Hitler attacked the U.S.S.R. They had to justify their war against fellow socialists.
Posted by: Timothy Birdnow at
12:05 PM
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1
It all boils down to the idea that if the citizens aren't free to pursue their own initiatives, you have tyranny, and you can call it by any name you choose, but it's still tyranny. America was founded with the idea of opposing tyranny... and look now: we've got it.
Posted by: Dana Mathewson at September 04, 2022 10:45 PM (FSK6u)
2
Amen Dana! It doesn't matter if you have a pharoah, a King George III, a Napoleon-style emperor, a Bolshevik dictator of a Fuehrer, in the end it's all the same. The People are told what to do "for their own good" which happily dovetails with what is good for those in power and not so beneficial to those who disagree.
Posted by: Timothy Birdnow at September 05, 2022 07:22 AM (NZNZ1)
3
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4
On Facebook a commenter named Christin Hale made a very astute observation in reply to a guy claiming Fascism is not socialism:
Posted by: Breitling Replica at June 03, 2023 10:15 PM (SUYyh)
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