October 09, 2021
Arguing with Idiots; Trump Derangement Edition
Timothy Birdnow
I had an argument with an idiot over religion. She brought up Donald Trump inappropriately and I replied. Here is the thread:
Rhonda Sherman
Something I did not know until I read it somewhere was what this really meant.
It doesn’t mean cursing, it means using the name of our savior for your own selfish agenda. Like Trump taking a picture with the Bible or folks who bully gays using Gods name and justification or preaching and taking the money earned for yourself…
No judgment but I read the Bible too and I know about folks without love but serpent tongues and how easy it is for the rich to get into heaven and all the things Jesus himself said.
I replied:
"I know about folks without love but serpent tongues and how easy it is for the rich to get into heaven and all the things Jesus himself said." But you are judging President Trump's heart without knowing it. YOU are the one claiming he's a liar and serpetn tongued. Did it once occur to you that perhaps you were wrong on that? His accusers are almost always the serpent tongued. One classic example; they say Trump called Nazis good people. That was a damnable lie. He was speaking about a rally to protect civil war statues and said there were good people at that rally on both sides. The lying media twisted his words. Who had the serpent tongue? And yet it seems you buy into what the media says of the man. You judge him. Do you want that same sort of judgment?
Rhonda replied:
Timothy Birdnow he is a man without love. A clanging cymbal. I don’t judge, I just know evil when I see it. We avoid evil and call it out.
I have seen him cause an insurrection because of his ego. People were hurt and harmed. I have seen him say horrible things about women and anyone he disagrees with. I have seen him put lives in danger with his words and rhetoric. I know of Jesus and I know of what is not Jesus. Narcissists don’t belong to him.
Where there is evil, worship of money and sex and attention—- he cannot be.
Help dear Rhonda; I'm on the warpath now: "he is a man without love. A clanging cymbal. I don’t judge" And you fail to see the beam in your own eye Rhonda. Don't you see the hypocrisy in your claim? You don't judge but he's a filthy pile of poo! Ri-ight. You say "I have seen him cause an insurrection because of his ego." That is a damnable lie and you know it. There was NO "insurrection" on January six. There were a few people let into the Capitol building by Capitol police, a few windows broken, and one person murdered in cold blood by said police. There were no guns, no bombs, no fires set. There was far worse violence when Mr. Trump was inaugurated if you care to look into it; over three hundred arrests and fires and looting all over D.C. But the media barely mentioned THAT. And you say it was for his ego? JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED. Mr. Trump did not force any of these people to come to D.C. He called for peaceful protest - as the transcripts from his speech make clear. He later called for calm and rejected any violence. AND the people who invaded the Capitol could not have made it there after Trump spoke; they got there before he finished speaking. And at least one Antifa member was arrested, I might add. Those people were there because they believed they had been disenfranchised
"I feel his presence in my heart and his overwhelming love." If you do Rhonda you certainly don't show it with your hate-filled rants.
Rhonda replies:
nothing I said was hateful.
I beg to differ:
No Rhonda; EVERYTHING you said was hateful. I'll pray that the Lord touch your heart.
A liberal named Joe Wells butts in:
Almost every single politician in this society and on this Earth is crooked in some way, shape or form. Power, greed and wealth corrupt, my friend, your savior is no different.
Trump is a victim of his own greed and cut-throat capitalism, and while you are absolutely correct that MSM, liberal and Democratic extremists perpetrate brutally unfair, hateful lies about this man, that makes him no less of a liar and corrupt elite-become-po
Why didn't he release his tax returns, Timothy, as is tradition for presidential candidates to do? As an accountant who values honesty and integrity, that is highly suspicious.
I retort:
Joe Wells Trump is NOT my "savior". Jesus is my savior. Trump is indeed a man with many faults and I never once denied that. He did make promises and at least tried to keep them. And he fought for the country and our traditions and heritage - something nobody has done for a long time. I did not support him in the primaries. I was pleasantly surprised by his actions as president, which were very good. He may have had a personality you do not like but I don't care; he did what we needed to have done. I fear you are projecting your own bias here. I am hardly doing what the media does to conservatives. Where have I lied about what Rhonda said? How have I mischaracterize
Mr. Wells doesn't like that:
I understand what you're saying, Timothy. I am not biased against Mr. Trump any more than any other politician. In fact, there are some things that I like very much about "The Donald" including his personality. He can be very comedic, charming and kind, at times. Nevertheless, the justification you listed for him not releasing his tax information is inadequate, in my opinion.
I support and advocate for the middle class, or "We the people," and what you, the people, need to realize is that what is occurring here is not political warfare, it is class warfare. The upper class minority has turned the middle class electorate majority against each other, into highly polarized, extremist enemies of each other, and you are contributing to that socially engineered system of hatred and dishonesty among us.
America was founded by European imperialists who raped, pillaged and enslaved the indigineous peoples of this land using superior weapons technology and imported slaves from other continents to perform hard labor and sex acts for almost nothing in return. That is Evil, or in your religion's terms, Satan, not God, Timothy. You and other conservatives need to realize that, even if only for the benefit and safety of yourselves.
Timothy Birdnow that would be where you are wrong. Mr Trump is an evil man. Mr Trump is a pervert who preys on women and turns them in for newer models and pays prostitutes. Mr Trump Worships money and fame and power and most of all attention. Mr Trump bullies and hurts people and uses his platform to promote hatred. Mr Trump stole from his charity and was convicted, taking from the sick and indigent and needy. Mr Trump lies and promotes chaos and division in Gods children.
Mr Trump in no way characterizes Christianity and in fact uses Gods name in vain. Using God to promote his own Narcissistic ego.
If you knew Jesus you would know he was humble, giving, charitable, loving….
The very opposite of what Trump is. Trump is not of God.
If you need a politician who is Christian, look at Jimmy Carter.
None of that is hateful. You must be careful in this néw selfish world that you can still understand what is good and what is evil. Many false prophets come.
I reply to Joe Wells:
Joe Wells you say "America was founded by European imperialists who raped, pillaged and enslaved the indigineous peoples of this land using superior weapons technology and imported slaves from other continents to perform hard labor and sex acts for almost nothing in return." I think you know little history. First, what the Europeans were doing was done by every single nation on Earth. Slavery was an ubiquitous institution, practiced by every people. Was it right. Of course not. But it was not even forbidden in the Bible. I would add the "indigineous people" raped, pillaged, and enslaved each-other on a regular basis, and in fact tried very hard to do the same to the incoming Europeans. There was a reason for the animosity between the cultures. The whites who came found their wives and children being kidnapped and forced into slavery - sexual and otherwise. It seems you are unaware of that. I am not excusing bad behavior by the European settlers, but am saying they were hardly the root of the problem. It was ubiquitous. Oh, and you do not understand how slavery began here. African warlords sold their defeated enemies (and those who were rivals from their own tribes) to Arab middlemen who then sold them to the white slave traders on the coast. Those traders were originally there picking up indentured servants. A black man named Anthony Johnson sued in court in Jamestown to compel his indentured servant - a man named John Casor - to remain as his property. It was a black man who started slavery in America. And freed blacks were often slaveholders. The largest slaveholder in antebellum Louisiana was a black family. I guess you missed that. And sex with slaves was largely forbidden by social custom. Otherwise blacks wouldn't be black any longer. There was a strong social taboo against it as there was against beating a slave. Not that it didn't happen but that it was very much condemned by polite society. America isn't perfect but people like you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. America has improved over time, too, something denied by the American-hating
Again Rhonda Sherman:
Jesus stayed close to the broken, the widowed, the orphaned, the sick, the disadvantaged, the scorned. He healed, loved and brought salvation.
He would never cage immigrants and children or use women for selfish sexual desires or promote a Capital uprising to hurt and kill folks. Those actions are evil. Stop promoting evil acts by evil hearts and take care of those that are hurting.
Me again:
Rhonda Sherman you claim to not have hate in your heart and not be judgemental and yet you go on a rant about how evil Donald Trump is without the irony entering your noggin. It's astonishing hypocrisy. Judge not lest ye be judged! I don't know how clearer that can be. As I have said, Mr. Trump is a work in progress (as indeed we all are) and yet you condemn him quite happily. That you would dare call him evil is all the proof I need to defend that statement. You are also monumentally ignorant of facts, accepting every vile accusation as gospel without even bothering to learn the details. You say "Mr Trump stole from his charity and was convicted, taking from the sick and indigent and needy. " Prove that. Its a damnable lie. Even the Trump-hating Factcheck.org admits it's false. https://
Oh, and Rhonda, you picked this fight. It was unnecessary. This was not a political post. YOU chose to make it so. You are consumed with hatred.
Joe Wells:
Dude, I don't have time to read through your unending, irrational, hate-filled rants. This is why I don't talk politics with Democrats or Republicans, because so many of you people are so blinded by Evil that all you are capable of doing is regurgitating ridiclous extremist propaganda spread by your respective parties' heavily biased news and information sources.
I did happen to read the part where you justify slavery by claiming that it was "normal" and that it's not forbidden by the Bible. That's downright scary, man. You have a yourself a nice day.
I retort:
You show yourself to be what I expected Joe Wells. A typical ignorant liberal partisan who sneers and runs away when he can't refute a point made. As William Paley said of Gibbons "how do you refute a sneer?"
You wasted my time here; I guess that's your great victory! Congratulations
You are completely ignorant of history and lacking in facts. And you have no real moral compass.
You condemn America out of total ingratitude and stupidity. Again, I ask why have so many been so desperate to come here if this country is such a hole? It's because it's the best country man has devised. And God blessed her for a reason. But that doesn't matter to someone who hates his country as do you, apparently.
You sir are the scary one.
You are too stupid to see that I in no way justified slavery but pointed out that slavery was ubiquitous and not actually condemned. That is not justifying anything. You are apparently too stupid to understand that. But then people like you think the world was born when you were born and modern values are eternal. You have no ability to understand that things and times were once different.
You ignore my points about the native peoples being slavers. Or the Arabs being slavers. Everyone was a slaver back then. It didn't make it right but to the people of the time it was the way it was. Only a fool would try to impose modern values on the past.
Well, the past can impose it's values on modernity too. By their standards we are hopelessly corrupt morons. Or I should say YOU and your friends are hopelessly corrupt morons, playing with evil as if it were a toy.
If you want to see the face of evil maybe try a mirror.
Wells can't stop himself from firing back, but in a very childish way:
Rhonda Sherman Do these religious fundamentalist,
I'm having difficulty deciding if this guy equates to someone who I would see in a cartoon or meet in a nightmare, although perhaps he's neither. Or maybe both.
Rhonda Sherman :
sorry. It’s not hateful. It is the truth.
In the last days, good looks like evil and evil like good.
I am a woman. As a Christian you should be condemning anyone who is perverted and sexually devious toward women.
You should be helping women heal from men like Trump. You should be disgusted by caging children at the border.
You should never be claiming that as the Christian candidate or using the Lords name in vain by affiliating my Lord and savior with an evil Narcissist.
Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do.
I reply to Joe Wells:
Joe Wells "Do these religious fundamentalist,
And I reply to Rhonda:
Yes it is Rhonda Sherman. You miss the beam in your own eye while pointing out the speck in the eyes of others. "As a Christian you should be condemning anyone who is perverted and sexually devious toward women. " And I do and that aspect of Mr. Trump was very bad indeed. BUT you seem willing to take any accusation, no matter how little credibility it has, as gospel. Mr. Trump was a philanderer. I do not know if he still is or not, but that is ultimately between him and God. I DO know the people who wanted to replace him are no better. So the choice is between one bad guy and another. The fact is, given the vast forces allied against Mr. Trump, it is interesting that not one single accusation against him stuck. Now why is that? Most likely because there never was anything as bad as they tried to claim. You are being lied to, in other words. If not, where are the charges against him? Why hasn't he been charged and convicted? He did pay out money to women. But if you look at men in his position they very often do, even when they are guilty of nothing; it's cheaper than a lawsuit. That said, do I think Trump is a saint. Absolutely not. But I think the man actually is maturing into a decent fellow, or trying to. And we don't hire saints for President. I don't worship a President - I hire a guy to do a job. Mr. Trump at least was working the will of his bosses, namely the American People. Joe Biden, the man you no doubt voted for, is destroying the country, costing countless lives, bankrupting us, and imposing a radical agenda on the nation. He is empowering a gestapo-like national security apparatus to go after dissidents in the finest tradition of Joe Stalin. Who is the better man? "You should be disgusted by caging children at the border. " That is another damnable lie and you should know that. These kids were held temporarily in facilities with chain link fences around them. If you want to see children in cages look at what the Obama Administration did, or what Joe Biden is doing now. Obama's people built those camps. And when they show photos from them they almost always show photos from the Obama era. In other words it was and is a policy that predated Trump and continues to this day. Get your facts straight. But you won't because you believe the mainstream media, which lies. "You should never be claiming that as the Christian candidate or using the Lords name in vain by affiliating my Lord and savior with an evil Narcissist." ????? Who tried to say Trump was Jesus? Mostly you. You set up a straw man. Nobody here was talking about Trump until you brought him up. I would add I became a Trump supporter in no small part because of the horrible, endless lies being told by his enemies, which included the whole news media and the big tech/social media operation. And people such as yourself. The "Russian collusion" story was a hoax from the very beginning, for instance. It was started by the Hillary Clinton campaign. It was used to justify endless investigations and spying on the Trump team. Again, I say calumny is a grave sin. Thou shalt not bear false witness.
"None of that is hateful. You must be careful in this néw selfish world that you can still understand what is good and what is evil. Many false prophets come." Indeed Rhonda. And who is the false prophet? Watch the media if you want to know. They despised Mr. Trump but love Joe Biden. They have been carrying Biden's water. I think you have the false prophets backward.
Rhonda retorts:
but you forget— the side of Christ is not with either political party nor did I ever see Joe state he was a liberal or a Democrat. That is hate. What I am saying is not hate. You are aligning with someone committing evil.
I myself do believe two men can have a sexual relationship and that if you actually study the Bible the terms that originally used were more about perversion and child molestation. I also know that sin is sin and all is unholy to God. So if that is a sin, it’s no greater than my sins I commit daily. Those folks are just as likely to go to heaven as you are. Man looks outward but God sees your true heart.
Study closely passages about those who are far from God. Those who lack love. Those are the folks going to Hell. Lots of true Narcissists and Sociopaths out in this world. They have no chance of entering his holy kingdom because they lack love.
You sound like a Pharisee.
I add:
Oh, and Rhonda, I'm disgusted that we HAVE a border crisis. Why is that? Because the Democrats and their media allies invited these people to invade our country and, thanks to liberal judges, we have to either hold the kids separate from their parents after a couple of weeks or release them. We were releasing them - catch and release, it was called, into the heartland of America never to be seen again. We cannot take the entire world into our country, and we can't vet people on the border that quickly. It was the policies of the Democrats and liberals to do this, and it was for political gain and at the expense of the American People. So if you don't like "children in cages" then take it up with the people you support. They created this catastrophe'. This had slowed to a trickle under Mr. Trump because he made them apply for asylum in Mexico and not come in until they received it. Biden restored the Obama practice of letting them in first. And if you think this somehow harsh, I would add these "refugees" had offers from Belize to relocate, as well as to stay in Mexico. They don't want that; they want America, because we have more money. They are in no danger from violence in Mexico. So they make the long journey with the drug cartels and the rapists and other criminals dogging them to come to America, be released into a Republican state, and vote in the next election. It's YOUR policies that cause all this.
Rhonda:
Timothy Birdnowmany Presidents talked rough on the border but never had the heart to enact those vile policies because well, who with love could cage kids and people. Trump did that. There were deaths for the first time and folks crammed in packed like rats instead of human beings.
Trump playing a commercial talking about the rapists and cartels coming was taken down because it was another example of his Racism. You cannot classify brown people seeking safety as a bunch of criminals. Do you get that??
He has always had lawsuits against him and he has dozens of lawyers and tied the courts up for forever, never being accountable for his actions. I believe the 20 plus women who say he assaulted them. I also believe the own words from his mouth when he said he likes to force himself on women and he can because of his money and power— he can just grab them by the ——.
Hiring prostitutes is illegal. Nepotism is illegal.
Those are both crimes that he never stood in a court for yet let a poor person hire a hooker or be one and they will end up in jail real quick.
Next time you get a chance, research NPD and the criteria for diagnosis and tell me he ain’t the most flagrant example you have ever seen.
I reply:
Rhonda Sherman You say: "Presidents talked rough on the border but never had the heart to enact those vile policies because well, who with love could cage kids and people. Trump did that." Cognitive Dissonance NOUN psychology cognitive dissonance (noun) 1. the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change. As I explained to you, the policies of "caging" as you falsely call it were implemented by Barack Obama and continue under Joe Biden. I don't know how to make it any plainer to you. Uh, Rhonda dear we've had laws on the books against illegal aliens invading for decades. If you don't like the law, why not change it? The Democrats knew it was not politically viable to do so they have just ignored the laws. So too did the RINO Bush administrations
I reply to Joe Wells:
Joe Wells "however I refuse to fall victim to the hatred, dishonesty and lack of logic that so clearly permeates both sides." Then why are you promulgating these lies? Why the hatred that is clearly being shown for Donald Trump? You are a Green Christian? Why am I not surprised at your pagan beliefs. That is serving the creature rather than the Creator.
Joe Wells responds:
Timothy Birdnow The reason I have not replied to your comments is not because I am unable to disprove them, the main reasons are:
1. You're acting combative and disrespectful, and your rhetoric suggests that I am some kind of enemy of yours when we don't know each other even a little bit.
2. While you do have some good ideas, much of what you are saying is outright propaganda funneled to the masses by the upper class through MSM, and I don't watch or pay attention the slightest bit to mainstream liberal or conservative news stations or information sources such as MSNBC or Fox News, nor do I intend to start or care one bit about these falsehoods.
3. I have no desire or need to respond to someone whose priority is clearly to have an uncivilized, combative argument, and who is so disrespectful and selfish, and who is so clearly brainwashed by Evil against his fellow men and women. It's like talking to a wall, completely pointless and without purpose, and that's not fun for me because it's a complete waste of my time.
Sorry dude. When you figure out how to have a nice, respectful, civilized conversation with someone else about this stuff, at that point I'll be happy to oblige.
I reply:
Joe Wells, you have been engaging in the children's trick of pretending you don't hear me while in fact trying to rebut me. It is rather juvenile.
You say:
1. You're acting combative and disrespectful.
Sorry dude but I'm only keeping it at the level you set. You want to have your cake and eat it too. You just don't like the fact you cannot refute my arguments, at least not logically.
2. While you do have some good ideas, much of what you are saying is outright propaganda funneled to the masses by the upper class through MSM
I guffawed at that. The MSM? You mean the people who spent four years trying to get trump thrown out of office? You show yourself to be an unserious person with that.
The Mainstream Media is solidly in the corner of the Democrats and has been for some time. They hate Trump as much as do you and Rhonda.
That was rich.
BTW I do not have cable and do not watch Fox, nor do I listen to talk radio. I research. I hold strong opinions because I know what is going on. That seems a rare commodity.
3. I have no desire or need to respond to someone whose priority is clearly to have an uncivilized, combative argument, and who is so disrespectful and selfish, and who is so clearly brainwashed by Evil against his fellow men
Another belly laugh. Who accused me of worshipping Donald Trump? You did chief. YOU picked the fight. Now you want out because you found I was unwilling to fold.
But who is brainwashed? I gave you a lot of facts and detail and you ignored it. You keep repeating the mainstream media narrative. Who is brainwashed?
Sorry dude. When you figure out how to have a nice, respectful, civilized conversation with someone else about this stuff, at that point I'll be happy to oblige.
I'm one of the most polite interlocutors you will encounter, except when someone is an ass. Again, you repeatedly lied and made backhanded comments and I am not going to permit you to get away with that.
The fact is Joe you have nothing with which to argue, which is why you are taking your ball and going home. You know it too. You see facts as combative and rude because, well, you aren't used to them.
Nice try.
I had an argument with an idiot over religion. She brought up Donald Trump inappropriately and I replied. Here is the thread:
Rhonda Sherman
Something I did not know until I read it somewhere was what this really meant.
It doesn’t mean cursing, it means using the name of our savior for your own selfish agenda. Like Trump taking a picture with the Bible or folks who bully gays using Gods name and justification or preaching and taking the money earned for yourself…
No judgment but I read the Bible too and I know about folks without love but serpent tongues and how easy it is for the rich to get into heaven and all the things Jesus himself said.
I replied:
"I know about folks without love but serpent tongues and how easy it is for the rich to get into heaven and all the things Jesus himself said." But you are judging President Trump's heart without knowing it. YOU are the one claiming he's a liar and serpetn tongued. Did it once occur to you that perhaps you were wrong on that? His accusers are almost always the serpent tongued. One classic example; they say Trump called Nazis good people. That was a damnable lie. He was speaking about a rally to protect civil war statues and said there were good people at that rally on both sides. The lying media twisted his words. Who had the serpent tongue? And yet it seems you buy into what the media says of the man. You judge him. Do you want that same sort of judgment?
Rhonda replied:
Timothy Birdnow he is a man without love. A clanging cymbal. I don’t judge, I just know evil when I see it. We avoid evil and call it out.
I have seen him cause an insurrection because of his ego. People were hurt and harmed. I have seen him say horrible things about women and anyone he disagrees with. I have seen him put lives in danger with his words and rhetoric. I know of Jesus and I know of what is not Jesus. Narcissists don’t belong to him.
Where there is evil, worship of money and sex and attention—- he cannot be.
Help dear Rhonda; I'm on the warpath now: "he is a man without love. A clanging cymbal. I don’t judge" And you fail to see the beam in your own eye Rhonda. Don't you see the hypocrisy in your claim? You don't judge but he's a filthy pile of poo! Ri-ight. You say "I have seen him cause an insurrection because of his ego." That is a damnable lie and you know it. There was NO "insurrection" on January six. There were a few people let into the Capitol building by Capitol police, a few windows broken, and one person murdered in cold blood by said police. There were no guns, no bombs, no fires set. There was far worse violence when Mr. Trump was inaugurated if you care to look into it; over three hundred arrests and fires and looting all over D.C. But the media barely mentioned THAT. And you say it was for his ego? JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED. Mr. Trump did not force any of these people to come to D.C. He called for peaceful protest - as the transcripts from his speech make clear. He later called for calm and rejected any violence. AND the people who invaded the Capitol could not have made it there after Trump spoke; they got there before he finished speaking. And at least one Antifa member was arrested, I might add. Those people were there because they believed they had been disenfranchised
"I feel his presence in my heart and his overwhelming love." If you do Rhonda you certainly don't show it with your hate-filled rants.
Rhonda replies:
nothing I said was hateful.
I beg to differ:
No Rhonda; EVERYTHING you said was hateful. I'll pray that the Lord touch your heart.
A liberal named Joe Wells butts in:
Almost every single politician in this society and on this Earth is crooked in some way, shape or form. Power, greed and wealth corrupt, my friend, your savior is no different.
Trump is a victim of his own greed and cut-throat capitalism, and while you are absolutely correct that MSM, liberal and Democratic extremists perpetrate brutally unfair, hateful lies about this man, that makes him no less of a liar and corrupt elite-become-po
Why didn't he release his tax returns, Timothy, as is tradition for presidential candidates to do? As an accountant who values honesty and integrity, that is highly suspicious.
I retort:
Joe Wells Trump is NOT my "savior". Jesus is my savior. Trump is indeed a man with many faults and I never once denied that. He did make promises and at least tried to keep them. And he fought for the country and our traditions and heritage - something nobody has done for a long time. I did not support him in the primaries. I was pleasantly surprised by his actions as president, which were very good. He may have had a personality you do not like but I don't care; he did what we needed to have done. I fear you are projecting your own bias here. I am hardly doing what the media does to conservatives. Where have I lied about what Rhonda said? How have I mischaracterize
Mr. Wells doesn't like that:
I understand what you're saying, Timothy. I am not biased against Mr. Trump any more than any other politician. In fact, there are some things that I like very much about "The Donald" including his personality. He can be very comedic, charming and kind, at times. Nevertheless, the justification you listed for him not releasing his tax information is inadequate, in my opinion.
I support and advocate for the middle class, or "We the people," and what you, the people, need to realize is that what is occurring here is not political warfare, it is class warfare. The upper class minority has turned the middle class electorate majority against each other, into highly polarized, extremist enemies of each other, and you are contributing to that socially engineered system of hatred and dishonesty among us.
America was founded by European imperialists who raped, pillaged and enslaved the indigineous peoples of this land using superior weapons technology and imported slaves from other continents to perform hard labor and sex acts for almost nothing in return. That is Evil, or in your religion's terms, Satan, not God, Timothy. You and other conservatives need to realize that, even if only for the benefit and safety of yourselves.
Timothy Birdnow that would be where you are wrong. Mr Trump is an evil man. Mr Trump is a pervert who preys on women and turns them in for newer models and pays prostitutes. Mr Trump Worships money and fame and power and most of all attention. Mr Trump bullies and hurts people and uses his platform to promote hatred. Mr Trump stole from his charity and was convicted, taking from the sick and indigent and needy. Mr Trump lies and promotes chaos and division in Gods children.
Mr Trump in no way characterizes Christianity and in fact uses Gods name in vain. Using God to promote his own Narcissistic ego.
If you knew Jesus you would know he was humble, giving, charitable, loving….
The very opposite of what Trump is. Trump is not of God.
If you need a politician who is Christian, look at Jimmy Carter.
None of that is hateful. You must be careful in this néw selfish world that you can still understand what is good and what is evil. Many false prophets come.
I reply to Joe Wells:
Joe Wells you say "America was founded by European imperialists who raped, pillaged and enslaved the indigineous peoples of this land using superior weapons technology and imported slaves from other continents to perform hard labor and sex acts for almost nothing in return." I think you know little history. First, what the Europeans were doing was done by every single nation on Earth. Slavery was an ubiquitous institution, practiced by every people. Was it right. Of course not. But it was not even forbidden in the Bible. I would add the "indigineous people" raped, pillaged, and enslaved each-other on a regular basis, and in fact tried very hard to do the same to the incoming Europeans. There was a reason for the animosity between the cultures. The whites who came found their wives and children being kidnapped and forced into slavery - sexual and otherwise. It seems you are unaware of that. I am not excusing bad behavior by the European settlers, but am saying they were hardly the root of the problem. It was ubiquitous. Oh, and you do not understand how slavery began here. African warlords sold their defeated enemies (and those who were rivals from their own tribes) to Arab middlemen who then sold them to the white slave traders on the coast. Those traders were originally there picking up indentured servants. A black man named Anthony Johnson sued in court in Jamestown to compel his indentured servant - a man named John Casor - to remain as his property. It was a black man who started slavery in America. And freed blacks were often slaveholders. The largest slaveholder in antebellum Louisiana was a black family. I guess you missed that. And sex with slaves was largely forbidden by social custom. Otherwise blacks wouldn't be black any longer. There was a strong social taboo against it as there was against beating a slave. Not that it didn't happen but that it was very much condemned by polite society. America isn't perfect but people like you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. America has improved over time, too, something denied by the American-hating
Again Rhonda Sherman:
Jesus stayed close to the broken, the widowed, the orphaned, the sick, the disadvantaged, the scorned. He healed, loved and brought salvation.
He would never cage immigrants and children or use women for selfish sexual desires or promote a Capital uprising to hurt and kill folks. Those actions are evil. Stop promoting evil acts by evil hearts and take care of those that are hurting.
Me again:
Rhonda Sherman you claim to not have hate in your heart and not be judgemental and yet you go on a rant about how evil Donald Trump is without the irony entering your noggin. It's astonishing hypocrisy. Judge not lest ye be judged! I don't know how clearer that can be. As I have said, Mr. Trump is a work in progress (as indeed we all are) and yet you condemn him quite happily. That you would dare call him evil is all the proof I need to defend that statement. You are also monumentally ignorant of facts, accepting every vile accusation as gospel without even bothering to learn the details. You say "Mr Trump stole from his charity and was convicted, taking from the sick and indigent and needy. " Prove that. Its a damnable lie. Even the Trump-hating Factcheck.org admits it's false. https://
Oh, and Rhonda, you picked this fight. It was unnecessary. This was not a political post. YOU chose to make it so. You are consumed with hatred.
Joe Wells:
Dude, I don't have time to read through your unending, irrational, hate-filled rants. This is why I don't talk politics with Democrats or Republicans, because so many of you people are so blinded by Evil that all you are capable of doing is regurgitating ridiclous extremist propaganda spread by your respective parties' heavily biased news and information sources.
I did happen to read the part where you justify slavery by claiming that it was "normal" and that it's not forbidden by the Bible. That's downright scary, man. You have a yourself a nice day.
I retort:
You show yourself to be what I expected Joe Wells. A typical ignorant liberal partisan who sneers and runs away when he can't refute a point made. As William Paley said of Gibbons "how do you refute a sneer?"
You wasted my time here; I guess that's your great victory! Congratulations
You are completely ignorant of history and lacking in facts. And you have no real moral compass.
You condemn America out of total ingratitude and stupidity. Again, I ask why have so many been so desperate to come here if this country is such a hole? It's because it's the best country man has devised. And God blessed her for a reason. But that doesn't matter to someone who hates his country as do you, apparently.
You sir are the scary one.
You are too stupid to see that I in no way justified slavery but pointed out that slavery was ubiquitous and not actually condemned. That is not justifying anything. You are apparently too stupid to understand that. But then people like you think the world was born when you were born and modern values are eternal. You have no ability to understand that things and times were once different.
You ignore my points about the native peoples being slavers. Or the Arabs being slavers. Everyone was a slaver back then. It didn't make it right but to the people of the time it was the way it was. Only a fool would try to impose modern values on the past.
Well, the past can impose it's values on modernity too. By their standards we are hopelessly corrupt morons. Or I should say YOU and your friends are hopelessly corrupt morons, playing with evil as if it were a toy.
If you want to see the face of evil maybe try a mirror.
Wells can't stop himself from firing back, but in a very childish way:
Rhonda Sherman Do these religious fundamentalist,
I'm having difficulty deciding if this guy equates to someone who I would see in a cartoon or meet in a nightmare, although perhaps he's neither. Or maybe both.
Rhonda Sherman :
sorry. It’s not hateful. It is the truth.
In the last days, good looks like evil and evil like good.
I am a woman. As a Christian you should be condemning anyone who is perverted and sexually devious toward women.
You should be helping women heal from men like Trump. You should be disgusted by caging children at the border.
You should never be claiming that as the Christian candidate or using the Lords name in vain by affiliating my Lord and savior with an evil Narcissist.
Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do.
I reply to Joe Wells:
Joe Wells "Do these religious fundamentalist,
And I reply to Rhonda:
Yes it is Rhonda Sherman. You miss the beam in your own eye while pointing out the speck in the eyes of others. "As a Christian you should be condemning anyone who is perverted and sexually devious toward women. " And I do and that aspect of Mr. Trump was very bad indeed. BUT you seem willing to take any accusation, no matter how little credibility it has, as gospel. Mr. Trump was a philanderer. I do not know if he still is or not, but that is ultimately between him and God. I DO know the people who wanted to replace him are no better. So the choice is between one bad guy and another. The fact is, given the vast forces allied against Mr. Trump, it is interesting that not one single accusation against him stuck. Now why is that? Most likely because there never was anything as bad as they tried to claim. You are being lied to, in other words. If not, where are the charges against him? Why hasn't he been charged and convicted? He did pay out money to women. But if you look at men in his position they very often do, even when they are guilty of nothing; it's cheaper than a lawsuit. That said, do I think Trump is a saint. Absolutely not. But I think the man actually is maturing into a decent fellow, or trying to. And we don't hire saints for President. I don't worship a President - I hire a guy to do a job. Mr. Trump at least was working the will of his bosses, namely the American People. Joe Biden, the man you no doubt voted for, is destroying the country, costing countless lives, bankrupting us, and imposing a radical agenda on the nation. He is empowering a gestapo-like national security apparatus to go after dissidents in the finest tradition of Joe Stalin. Who is the better man? "You should be disgusted by caging children at the border. " That is another damnable lie and you should know that. These kids were held temporarily in facilities with chain link fences around them. If you want to see children in cages look at what the Obama Administration did, or what Joe Biden is doing now. Obama's people built those camps. And when they show photos from them they almost always show photos from the Obama era. In other words it was and is a policy that predated Trump and continues to this day. Get your facts straight. But you won't because you believe the mainstream media, which lies. "You should never be claiming that as the Christian candidate or using the Lords name in vain by affiliating my Lord and savior with an evil Narcissist." ????? Who tried to say Trump was Jesus? Mostly you. You set up a straw man. Nobody here was talking about Trump until you brought him up. I would add I became a Trump supporter in no small part because of the horrible, endless lies being told by his enemies, which included the whole news media and the big tech/social media operation. And people such as yourself. The "Russian collusion" story was a hoax from the very beginning, for instance. It was started by the Hillary Clinton campaign. It was used to justify endless investigations and spying on the Trump team. Again, I say calumny is a grave sin. Thou shalt not bear false witness.
"None of that is hateful. You must be careful in this néw selfish world that you can still understand what is good and what is evil. Many false prophets come." Indeed Rhonda. And who is the false prophet? Watch the media if you want to know. They despised Mr. Trump but love Joe Biden. They have been carrying Biden's water. I think you have the false prophets backward.
Rhonda retorts:
but you forget— the side of Christ is not with either political party nor did I ever see Joe state he was a liberal or a Democrat. That is hate. What I am saying is not hate. You are aligning with someone committing evil.
I myself do believe two men can have a sexual relationship and that if you actually study the Bible the terms that originally used were more about perversion and child molestation. I also know that sin is sin and all is unholy to God. So if that is a sin, it’s no greater than my sins I commit daily. Those folks are just as likely to go to heaven as you are. Man looks outward but God sees your true heart.
Study closely passages about those who are far from God. Those who lack love. Those are the folks going to Hell. Lots of true Narcissists and Sociopaths out in this world. They have no chance of entering his holy kingdom because they lack love.
You sound like a Pharisee.
I add:
Oh, and Rhonda, I'm disgusted that we HAVE a border crisis. Why is that? Because the Democrats and their media allies invited these people to invade our country and, thanks to liberal judges, we have to either hold the kids separate from their parents after a couple of weeks or release them. We were releasing them - catch and release, it was called, into the heartland of America never to be seen again. We cannot take the entire world into our country, and we can't vet people on the border that quickly. It was the policies of the Democrats and liberals to do this, and it was for political gain and at the expense of the American People. So if you don't like "children in cages" then take it up with the people you support. They created this catastrophe'. This had slowed to a trickle under Mr. Trump because he made them apply for asylum in Mexico and not come in until they received it. Biden restored the Obama practice of letting them in first. And if you think this somehow harsh, I would add these "refugees" had offers from Belize to relocate, as well as to stay in Mexico. They don't want that; they want America, because we have more money. They are in no danger from violence in Mexico. So they make the long journey with the drug cartels and the rapists and other criminals dogging them to come to America, be released into a Republican state, and vote in the next election. It's YOUR policies that cause all this.
Rhonda:
Timothy Birdnowmany Presidents talked rough on the border but never had the heart to enact those vile policies because well, who with love could cage kids and people. Trump did that. There were deaths for the first time and folks crammed in packed like rats instead of human beings.
Trump playing a commercial talking about the rapists and cartels coming was taken down because it was another example of his Racism. You cannot classify brown people seeking safety as a bunch of criminals. Do you get that??
He has always had lawsuits against him and he has dozens of lawyers and tied the courts up for forever, never being accountable for his actions. I believe the 20 plus women who say he assaulted them. I also believe the own words from his mouth when he said he likes to force himself on women and he can because of his money and power— he can just grab them by the ——.
Hiring prostitutes is illegal. Nepotism is illegal.
Those are both crimes that he never stood in a court for yet let a poor person hire a hooker or be one and they will end up in jail real quick.
Next time you get a chance, research NPD and the criteria for diagnosis and tell me he ain’t the most flagrant example you have ever seen.
I reply:
Rhonda Sherman You say: "Presidents talked rough on the border but never had the heart to enact those vile policies because well, who with love could cage kids and people. Trump did that." Cognitive Dissonance NOUN psychology cognitive dissonance (noun) 1. the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change. As I explained to you, the policies of "caging" as you falsely call it were implemented by Barack Obama and continue under Joe Biden. I don't know how to make it any plainer to you. Uh, Rhonda dear we've had laws on the books against illegal aliens invading for decades. If you don't like the law, why not change it? The Democrats knew it was not politically viable to do so they have just ignored the laws. So too did the RINO Bush administrations
I reply to Joe Wells:
Joe Wells "however I refuse to fall victim to the hatred, dishonesty and lack of logic that so clearly permeates both sides." Then why are you promulgating these lies? Why the hatred that is clearly being shown for Donald Trump? You are a Green Christian? Why am I not surprised at your pagan beliefs. That is serving the creature rather than the Creator.
Joe Wells responds:
Timothy Birdnow The reason I have not replied to your comments is not because I am unable to disprove them, the main reasons are:
1. You're acting combative and disrespectful, and your rhetoric suggests that I am some kind of enemy of yours when we don't know each other even a little bit.
2. While you do have some good ideas, much of what you are saying is outright propaganda funneled to the masses by the upper class through MSM, and I don't watch or pay attention the slightest bit to mainstream liberal or conservative news stations or information sources such as MSNBC or Fox News, nor do I intend to start or care one bit about these falsehoods.
3. I have no desire or need to respond to someone whose priority is clearly to have an uncivilized, combative argument, and who is so disrespectful and selfish, and who is so clearly brainwashed by Evil against his fellow men and women. It's like talking to a wall, completely pointless and without purpose, and that's not fun for me because it's a complete waste of my time.
Sorry dude. When you figure out how to have a nice, respectful, civilized conversation with someone else about this stuff, at that point I'll be happy to oblige.
I reply:
Joe Wells, you have been engaging in the children's trick of pretending you don't hear me while in fact trying to rebut me. It is rather juvenile.
You say:
1. You're acting combative and disrespectful.
Sorry dude but I'm only keeping it at the level you set. You want to have your cake and eat it too. You just don't like the fact you cannot refute my arguments, at least not logically.
2. While you do have some good ideas, much of what you are saying is outright propaganda funneled to the masses by the upper class through MSM
I guffawed at that. The MSM? You mean the people who spent four years trying to get trump thrown out of office? You show yourself to be an unserious person with that.
The Mainstream Media is solidly in the corner of the Democrats and has been for some time. They hate Trump as much as do you and Rhonda.
That was rich.
BTW I do not have cable and do not watch Fox, nor do I listen to talk radio. I research. I hold strong opinions because I know what is going on. That seems a rare commodity.
3. I have no desire or need to respond to someone whose priority is clearly to have an uncivilized, combative argument, and who is so disrespectful and selfish, and who is so clearly brainwashed by Evil against his fellow men
Another belly laugh. Who accused me of worshipping Donald Trump? You did chief. YOU picked the fight. Now you want out because you found I was unwilling to fold.
But who is brainwashed? I gave you a lot of facts and detail and you ignored it. You keep repeating the mainstream media narrative. Who is brainwashed?
Sorry dude. When you figure out how to have a nice, respectful, civilized conversation with someone else about this stuff, at that point I'll be happy to oblige.
I'm one of the most polite interlocutors you will encounter, except when someone is an ass. Again, you repeatedly lied and made backhanded comments and I am not going to permit you to get away with that.
The fact is Joe you have nothing with which to argue, which is why you are taking your ball and going home. You know it too. You see facts as combative and rude because, well, you aren't used to them.
Nice try.
Posted by: Timothy Birdnow at
05:55 PM
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1
Wow, Tim! You certainly worked hard on those two, but without much avail. There's a saying that "A person convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."
However, you did a great job, only perhaps failing to point out Bite-Me's sexual transgressions. I'm sure you left those out for a reason. Anyhow, you did a better job with those two snowflakes than I would have. And snowflakes they both are. I wonder which "church" that female attends?
However, you did a great job, only perhaps failing to point out Bite-Me's sexual transgressions. I'm sure you left those out for a reason. Anyhow, you did a better job with those two snowflakes than I would have. And snowflakes they both are. I wonder which "church" that female attends?
Posted by: Dana Mathewson at October 09, 2021 09:15 PM (A0QQk)
2
The guy started addressing himself to her, not to me, in a juvenile display (which I called him out over.) He then responded to me, saying he wasn't talking to me because I was mean, attacking him and being combative. Typical passive aggressive behavior by a snowflake. I pointed out he did that because he couldn't answer my points. He didn't like that.
I don't think I was in any way abusive in this discussion. He just didn't like the fact he couldn't win.
Yes, I did stereotype him, but that was because he was clearly following the standard liberal position. I pointed that out to him. He called himself a Green, which, given this was supposedly a discussion about religion, said it all. He is essentially a neopagan and I called him out as such. He didn't like his cover being blown.
Dana, I didn't mention Biden's sexual piccadillos mainly because I was saving them, and because I didn't want to wander too far into the weeds (I was defending Trump from a Christian standpoint.) I would have used it had I seen the need. And I may still; I wasn't on the computer at all yesterday, primarily due to the fact I stayed up to five a.m. Saturday night with Cathy (it was our anniversary).
I don't think I was in any way abusive in this discussion. He just didn't like the fact he couldn't win.
Yes, I did stereotype him, but that was because he was clearly following the standard liberal position. I pointed that out to him. He called himself a Green, which, given this was supposedly a discussion about religion, said it all. He is essentially a neopagan and I called him out as such. He didn't like his cover being blown.
Dana, I didn't mention Biden's sexual piccadillos mainly because I was saving them, and because I didn't want to wander too far into the weeds (I was defending Trump from a Christian standpoint.) I would have used it had I seen the need. And I may still; I wasn't on the computer at all yesterday, primarily due to the fact I stayed up to five a.m. Saturday night with Cathy (it was our anniversary).
Posted by: Timothy Birdnow at October 11, 2021 07:51 AM (Vzqto)
3
Good point, Brother. I'd hate to be arguing against you if I didn't have my s**t together! But liberals throw around the "hate" word almost as much as they do the "racist" term. It's what they do when they can't come up with anything good, which is 95% of the time. Somehow, our side has to find a way to defuse those terms, but it'll be hard, when we're arguing with people who don't listen.
Posted by: Dana Mathewson at October 11, 2021 09:37 PM (zjwe/)
4
They do use hate almost as much as racism. And both apply more to them than to our side.
Which is why they use those terms; they don't have strict definitions. They are "soft" terms that can both be defined as besting a liberal.
Which is why they use those terms; they don't have strict definitions. They are "soft" terms that can both be defined as besting a liberal.
Posted by: Timothy Birdnow at October 13, 2021 08:30 AM (ZmO8h)
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