November 12, 2023

Arguing with Idiots; George h. Smith Atheism Edition

Timothy Birdnow

On Facebook I take down a moron and his champion.

Alan Genestine posts this:

George H Smith considers the conception of the idea of supreme being the most widespread and destructive of all man-made myths. With this provocation, George Smith attempts to argue against centuries of scholars and researchers in theology. He exposes the historical and psychological devastation caused by religion in general and concludes, in a very subjective but rational way, that religious belief can have no place in the life of a modern and rational man. His goal, however, is not to convert people to atheism, but to demonstrate that belief in God is irrational and absurd. He admits the freedom to believe in everyone and especially in God, but he absolutely wants to attack those who support and justify their behavior on their belief under the pretext of substituting it for reason and a higher moral necessity.

Taking on Blaise Pascal's probability theory, George Smith wants to counter the famous gambling argument. "If you bet on Christianity and there’s no God, you don’t lose anything,” he explains. George Smith therefore analyzes the phenomenon of the adoption of belief by resuming Pascal's Pari theory on the inequality of the issues between believing and not believing. Living an atheist life and being wrong exposes each of us to an eternal existence in hell. The psychological cost is huge. Believing in God has weaker psychological cost than atheism. George Smith argues that the existence of God, involves the use of reason. And, if we apply the cannons of reasoning to theistic belief, we come to the conclusion that theism is unfounded and must be rejected by reasonable people.

George Smith admits reason can be faulty. But, in that case, reason may convince us that if God exists, He does not meddle in the affairs of human beings. And so, believing or not believing has no influence in the afterlife. We die, period is all. But if God exist, He is good. He punishes bad actions or moral turpits. He cannot condemn to eternity hell those and those who haven't practiced a behaviour of faith throughout their earthly lives. If He has given us the ability to reason as a basic tool for understanding our world, then He must be proud of the conscientious and scrupulous use of reason by each of His creatures. George Smith then uses a euphemism to represent atheism, which he calls "an honest error of belief".

In the event that God would be unjust, that is, he would not differentiate between venial errors of not believing in him and other more grave errors, nothing could predict his future judgment. A believer could very well burn in hell for the rest of his eternity if God's judgment is arbitrary. A believer would not be in any better position than an unbeliever. The issue of behavior based on this rational anticipation is equivalent to believing and disbelief. Therefore, there's no such thing asymmetry in anticipation. Pascal's bet is being replaced by George H. Smith.

I reply: As Joe Pesci says in "My Cousin Vinny" "Everything that guy said was bullshit. Thank you."

1.For a "myth" belief in a God or gods is ubiquitous, deeply imbedded in every culture in the most remote of places as well as in the highest civilizations.

2. "Historical devestation"???
What devestation was that exactly? I would point out that the cultures that promoted atheism - mainly those following Marxism - were far more vicious and deadly and warlike than ever were religious folk.

And i would further point out that there are huge differences between religions. He lumps them all together as if they were monolithic. That is a trick designed to smear them all.

3."The modern and rational man". Who exactly is that? Those promoting the idea of 27 "genders"? Those who say cutting off a man's penis makes him a woman? Those who support socialism which has never worked in human history?

Isaac Newton, the man who basically invented all of classical physics, was a very rational and at the same time very devout man. How about George Washington Carver? Blaise Paschal? Copernicus?

That was then. Now we have a plethora of young scientists who equally believe. Francis Collins for example. Steven Bernasek. S. Fred Singer. I could list them all but you get the point.

4. What is more absurd; to believe in a being who has been believed in throughout history and who shows multiple fingerprints on the fabric of this universe or believe the universe simply created itself from nothing - in violation of the very laws of said universe? Is it irrational to believe the Anthropic Principle suggests a Creator? To believe that the reversal of entropy in the creation of things in this universe, especially in life, suggests a creator? The incredible nature of the human mind and the brain? What of Natural Law?

5. Attacking those who practice their faith is but a tool to eliminate it, not some sort of non-judgmental effort at correcting the record. As the Left - and a majority of atheists are on the Left - have elevated non-judgmentali sm to the highest priority he has to pay lip service while attempting to tear down the moral code.

6.All atheism offers is an excuse to behave as you wish and indulge all of your lusts. Is that worth eternity if you are wrong? It doesn't even make you happy. Paschal was right.

7.Atheism is the truly unfounded belief. It is NOT supported by reason or by logic or facts. You must make as large a leap of faith to say "there is no God" than to say that there is. You have to say the univese simply created itself out of nothing in violation of the laws of thermodynamics. You have to twist in multiple ways to embrace it - Fred Hoyle, for instance, knew it was statistically impossible for life to have spontaneously generated. He calculated the odds at ten to the forty thousandth power. As it was obvious the universe was not nearly old enough he had to kick the can down the road thus invented the Steady State theory to circumvent the inconventient fact that evidence pointed to a much younger universe. He had to then say the universe was always creating new matter out of nothing AND he had to then say life did not evolve on Earth but came here from space. All of these things to avoid admitting there just M IGHT be a God.

Some scientists postule the Many Worlds hypothesis, which says there are an infinite number of universes, ever splitting, so that the odds of one being suitable for life had to happen. It was the only way out of the Anthropic Principle. If that isn't a "hail mary" pass I don't know what is.

You don't have to say you believe in God, but certainly agnosticism makes far more sense than atheism which boldly, confidently denies there is one against any evidence. And every piece of evidence is sneered at and mocked by the atheist who doth protest far too much.

8. I would agree God generally doesn't intervene directly, but He hardly does not intervene. How else do we know about Him? He left clues. He also involved Himself with people and nations on occasion.

Why would a God create us if He didn't have a purpose for us otherwise?

But if one assumes God wants us to make up our own minds about things He MUST not intervene too directly. And why should He? What did we ever do to desserve it?

Who would reject God if not given a choice? And how does anyone get a choice if they know for a fact God exists?

8. "And so, believing or not believing has no influence in the afterlife. We die, period is all."

And you know this exactly how?

You do know there are things called Near Death Experiences and they have happened all over the world. They are ubiquitous and they all have the same elements, even in radically different cultures and traditions. In other words WE HAVE WITNESSES who have actually seen death. They testify it is real. They also testify that there is a place of eternal punishment (or so it seemed to them) as well as a place of eternal joy.

In a court of law these people would stand up as expert witnesses. Yet most atheists ignore NDE's except when trying to find a way to dismiss them. But no physical explanations have panned out.

I would add there have been other things, like Marian apparitions, which have been witnessed by large numbers of people. There was a huge one in Zeitun Egypt- a predominantly Muslim country, back in 1968. There have been many others - at Fatima, at Lourdes, at Medjugorje. There have been carefully documented miracles.

So yes there are indeed witnesses, and they have been documented the world over. Sneering at this won't make it any less true.

9. "He cannot condemn to eternity hell those and those who haven't practiced a behaviour of faith throughout their earthly lives."

God is also just. We think of God as all love, which is true, but He also is just. We all have an intrinsic belief in justice, one that is abstract and never seen in practice. That is a form of Natural Law. It is because God is all just.

So God is duty-bound to punish the unrepentent evildoer. He would not be God if He did not do so.

And God isn't even punishing them so much as giving them what they want. Does a gang-banger want to han g out at a high-brow party? No. And of course if they showed up it would ruin the party. So these people want to go with their own kind. If you are a bad person you would prefer Hell to being forced to spend time in Heaven with all those you despise.

So it is a mercy of God to allow the evil people to chose to go elsewhere, where they won't feel judged or where they won't be forced to associate with those who they hate.

I would add that God had a plan of salvation for those who were bad but wished they were not. He came here and did the job directly, taking the punishment for us. It healed the breech between God and Man. Now people can go to Heaven.

BTW Heaven is not paradise. It is being in God's presence. The Catholic faith has long taught the idea of Limbo, a place of great joy and happiness but ultimatley empty because God is not present. The most luxurious and fun prison is still a prison. Dante put Limbo just inside the vestibule of Hell in the Inferno.

10. Reason is a tool, and as such can be wielded objectively or to buttress our own errors. We see it all the time in courtrooms.

11. Refusing to believe in God MAY be an error, but more often is an act of will, a denial of God in favor of yourself. It's a form of selfishness. Not all atheists are, certainly; many simply do not believe. But many do in fact believe in a god - just that god is easily seen in the mirror.

12. It depends on what you mean by "believer". Not just believing in God is enough. Certainly the devils believe in God too (and believe some really bad stuff about Him). But a Christian believer's salvation comes from the sacrifice of Jesus so is not in doubt if he holds to his faith.


Posted by: Timothy Birdnow at 12:15 PM | No Comments | Add Comment
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