February 06, 2021
Arguing with Idiots Trump Derangement Syndrome Edition
Timothy Birdnow
Having a Facebook argument with someone from my grammar schoold ays - a labor Democrat who hates Trump.
Susan said:
Timothy Birdnow lol @ russian "hoax"
I replied:
LOL at hoax denial Susan Longinette. The whole thing came from Hillary Clinton's campaign, which hired Christopher Steele and Fusion GPS to create dirt on Trump. https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/10/hillary-clinton-orchestrated-russia-collusion-farce/ John Brennan briefed Barack Obama on this scheme, based on his own handwritten notes, I might add, so Obama was on board with this. See https://news.yahoo.com/dni-releases-cia-documents-hillary-204337457.html and https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/russia-hoax-lie-hillary-clinton-gregg-jarrett There was no evidence and the Mueller Report - despite being full of Democrat operatives - couldn't make any case. It was entirely a hit to drive Trump first from the campaign then from office. Anyone who looks at this honestly has to admit this was a coup.
That Susan is why so many of us believe this last election was stolen; there was a titanic effort to drive Trump from office. There was blackmail and threats against electors before the EC met in2016, and there was a boycott of his inaugural. There were articles of impeachment against Trump as early as spring of 2017. He was endlessly investigated. He received 92% negative coverage from the media. https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/09/trump-tv-coverage-negative-summer/ He was impeached for something he "dog whistled" while Joe Biden actually bragged about doing (withholding funds from Ukraine). But then we are supposed to believe this last election was pure as the wind driven snow, despite the many odd things involving it (illegal changes in election laws in states by judges and Governors, refusing to match signatures on mail-in ballots, moving ballots around and losing chain of custody, shutting down vote counting when Trump was pulling ahead and then miraculously finding 100% of all subsequent votes were for Biden, the failure of all bellweathers to accurately predict the election, the failure of the President to have coattails either way, etc.)
So now Susan we can't even get justice when a man caught red-handed forging evidence against Trump is sentenced. Is it any wonder so many people won't accept Joe Biden as legitimate?
Susan says:
I'm saying that so don hr and jared meeting with the Russians was Hillary 's fault? Hmm really?
He was investigated because he appeared to be committing or having committed crimes. As an example I don't know that had he released his tax records as promised that they would have been scrutinized nearly as they are but he fought tooth and nail against releasing them. That isn't why he was impeached Timmy. He was impeached for the quid pro quo which he clearly was guilty of but the Republican controlled senate under m.m. was able to hold off the guilty verdict. He manipulated every aspect of his impeachment. Witnesses were not allowed to testify etc. The level of power he was able establish over his fellow Republicans is truly fightening. Poer through fear and intimidation and threats. Questioning him in anyway put a fellow Republican at risk it seemed. The issue with the election occurred because trump manipulated the election process across the board. With u.s. postal service for one and that's elections have been in parts of the country forever astonishingly signatures etc. It wasnt changed. Trump wanted it changed because he knew he would lose if it didnt. Where was there a lid of custody. What's that about shutting down vote counting? C'mon.
I don't understand how you don't see in general he was not good for America and Americans.
I retort:
Susan Longinette you say "I'm saying that so don hr and jared meeting with the Russians was Hillary 's fault?" First, Trump is a free citizen and a businessman who does international business. What, he's not allowed to meet with people from overseas? Second, Hillary's campaign hired Fusion GPS who hired british spy Christopher Steele to invent this crap. Or doesn't that matter to you? It was a political hit from the beginning.
You say "He was impeached for the quid pro quo which he clearly was guilty of but the Republican controlled senate under m.m. was able to hold off the guilty verdict." Uh, your proof Susan? Where did he say he was withholding money from the Ukrainians? Joe Biden actually DID say it to the Ukrainians, and bragged about having forced them to fire the prosecutor looking into his son's business dealings. Nothing happened to your boy Joe but the Democrats impeached Trump. It was purely political and you know it. Oh, wait...it was a DOG WHISTLE again! Why do you Democrats always hear dog whistles?
Susan, that impeachment was a farce. Trump's defense was not allowed to question witnesses, for example, during the House hearings. It was purely political and YOU KNOW IT. Why do you suppose they waited so long to impeach Trump? A bill of impeachment was introduced by Democrats in early 2017 but Pelosi killed it repeatedly. Why? She knew there was no case. She resisted bringing that case up because she knew she had nothing, but her frothing at the mouth caucus insisted, and she wanted it to at least tarnish Trump for the election. Otherwise she would have allowed it to come much earlier. She knew there was no there there.
Susan, Trump did not manipulate the Post Office. You clearly don't understand how the USPS works; it is a private corporation owned by the U.S. government, but it IS private. It draws no funds from the treasury, but is financed by sales of stamps. Trump did not in any way tamper with it; he can't. He has no authority. He does not appoint
Trump had the media against him almost entirely. He had the Democrats against him. He had the GOP Establishment against him. He had all the big tech companies against him (worth probably over a billion dollars in campaign donations to Biden.) So how did he manipulate the electoral process? From what I can see it was the Democrats who manipulated the electoral process - from changing electoral laws (like altering dates for the receipt of absentee ballots without state congressional approval) and imposing mail-in voting ( something quite different than absentee voting), something the Carter-Baker Commission warned would be catastrophic as it was ripe for vote fraud. They sent out ballots to addresses without being requested, for example. That means a lot of ballots were floating around just waiting to be filled out.
If Trump had this great power over the election - and without a real organization or network - than why did he lose at all? He should have had no trouble.
Susan, why did the Democrats sue to stop matching signatures between voter registration and mail-in ballots? https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/23/pennsylvania-court-ballot-signatures-431794There is only one reason and you know what that is. That was clearly about defrauding the electoral system. I think you know this.
Yes, there was loss of chain of custody in multiple places. See https://georgiastarnews.com/2020/12/25/nearly-two-thirds-of-georgia-counties-fail-to-produce-chain-of-custody-documents-for-460000-absentee-ballots-after-the-november-3-general-election/ and https://tennesseestar.com/2021/01/04/cnn-fumbles-georgia-ballot-chain-of-custody-fact-check/ here and https://georgiastarnews.com/2020/12/05/dekalb-county-cannot-find-chain-of-custody-records-for-absentee-ballots-deposited-in-drop-boxes-it-has-not-been-determined-if-responsive-records-to-your-request-exist/ here for a few examples about this in Georgia. Here is an example of chain of custody being broken in Pennsylvania. https://thepostmillennial.com/pennsylvania-state-hearing-on-election-fraud-alleges-missing-and-uncounted-votes/ also https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2020/11/25/285354-n285354 Also Arizona https://prescottenews.com/index.php/2020/12/27/election-integrity-group-releases-1400-page-super-appendix-demonstrating-extensive-lawlessness-in-swing-states-during-the-2020-general-election/
BTW There was an Arizona firm with close ties to the Democrats who sent fraudulent ballots to the Georgia runoff and it is still under investigation. https://thespectator.info/2021/01/02/arizona-firm-that-allegedly-sent-fake-ballots-to-georgia-runbeck-election-services-is-closely-tied-to-democrat-party/
Mark Zuckerberg spent millions on a project to give local election boards new equipment in this election. Why do you suppose that is?
And yes vote counting was shut down in multiple battleground states in key districts at the same time on election night. https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/11/04/americans-suspicious-and-outraged-after-key-dem-run-cities-stop-counting-votes-on-election-day-992614/ and https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/us-election-what-happened-in-key-battleground-states-on-election-night/news-story/2037f4baa76cab7e378fdd468ffe22f1
This election was handled in a profoundly different way than any in the past. Judges overturned election laws. So did Democratic governors. Any reasonable person who actually looks at this knows something very fishy happened on election night. And do you really think that after spending four years trying to remove this President - the legally elected POTUS - that the enemies of Donald Trump would NOT try to steal this election?
C'mon Susan!
You could have done this research as easily as I. You are purposely burying your head in the sand.
And yes he WAS good for America and Americans. On his watch we saw the destruction of ISIS, and at the same time Trump was the first President in half a century to not get us into a foreign war. Under his watch we saw an end to nuclear testing by North Korea. Under his watch we saw NATO and the Europeans pay more of their share for their own defense. Under his watch we saw several Arab countries make peace with Israel. We saw a big decline in the number of "refugees" coming from Muslim countries into both Europe and the U.S. We saw a rebalancing of trade with the elimination of NAFTA (something union people claimed to have wanted until Trump did it). We saw the opening of federal land to hydraulic fracturing and the subsequent decline in prices of oil and natural gas, and America becoming the leading exporter of oil in the world as a result. Did you like four dollar a gallon gas that we saw during the Obama era? Gas was under two bucks in most places in the U.S. on Trump's watch.
We saw record employment for African Americans and Hispanics, and full employment for everyone else. Had it not been for the shutting down of the Ameriican economy due to the pandemic Trump would have sailed to an easy victory in the election.
We saw industries being revived and manufacturing plants moving back to the U.S.
We saw a steep dropoff in illegal immigration to America and a much tighter southern border. Or do you like people just strolling in here to steal our jobs and social services and perhaps plot terrorist attacks against us?
Speaking of terrorist attacks, there were few agaomst is during the Trump years.
Trump ended the anti-American Paris Accords. He ended the ridiculously foolish Iran deal (which allowed Iran to ultimately obtain a nuclear weapon.) He ended the onerous individual mandate for Obamacare (which he had to do since the Republicans would not replace that horrible legislation.) My brother Brian was being killed by the fine he had to pay for noth having insurance - a grossly unconstitutional thing, I might add. He was delighted to be liberated from that money grab, but now under Biden he'll be forced into doing it again.
We all saw our taxes go down under Trump. That includes both personal and corporate (which is important because it means more businesses will base in the U.S.)
I could go on and on.
And Trump showed just how horribly corrupt Washington really is, and how there are two sets of laws, one for them and another for the faceless rabble that is the rest of America.
But, but, but Trump caused DIVISION we are told. Whose fault was that? Trump didn't cause division, his enemies did because they would not accept his Presidency.
And despite all the Democrat-sanctioned riots and looting that occured, Trump never sent in military force to quell them because he believed in Federalism and waited to be asked by the Democrat state governors. Trump tried to address the alleged underlying issues - like criminal justice reform. BTW Joe Biden was one of the driving forces behind the three strikes you are out and forfeiture laws that were at the core of black complaints about being mistreated by the police. HE was the architect. Not Trump, who reformed it.
Susan, do you really want an America where international institutions can reach into the pockets of taxpayers, where men can put on women's clothes and go into women's restrooms, where government can oppress Christian churches for not embracing homosexuality or other things they consider morally objectionable? That is what YOUR GUY is pushing. Do you want eight buck a gallon gas as they have in France? Do you want America to be swallowed up by immigrants who do not know what America is supposed to be and intend to maintain the culture they jsut left? Do you think it is good to keep Balkanizing America into warring groups and factions? Do you want suppression of free speech as we are seeing happen now? Do you want guilt until proven innocent as we saw during the Obama era on college campuses?
America is looking more and more like the Soviet Union we fought against, and Trump stemmed that tide for a time. Biden will only accelerate it. Socialism, my dear, is a terrible, failed ideology condemned by the Catholic Church, for one. But it's at the heart of the modern Democratic Party, which is no longer even remotely the Party you grew up with.
The worst you can say about Trump is he is a jackass. Well, I didn't hire him for his personality. He was an executive officer. Frankly, had he not been so hated by so many I would have been concerned, as it would have meant he was being ineffectual. The hatred of Trump stemmed in no small part from his effectiveness. We needed a reformer. The more a reformer is needed the more such a person will be hated. Trump was truly hated.
I didn't like the man myself, and I didn't support him in the priamry, but the way the Washington Establishment turned purple over him made it clear he was on the right track.
I think that if you could move past your prejudice to Republicans (something which Mr. Trump was not) and actually look at this objectively you would see how very wrong you are.
James Doogue adds:
Susan, I respect that you have remained civil in your debate here. That's something many on the Left of politics can't seem to do. I appreciate that.
I have read your responses above and below, and I don't want to go into a detailed rebuttal with citations because it is clear to me that you haven't been given the full facts. I'll just take two issues. Don Junior's "meeting with the Russians", and Don Senior's tax returns.
"Meeting with the Russians"
Firstly you have to accept that almost three years of thorough investigation into the Trump campaign found there was ZERO evidence that there was any collusion with the Russians to influence the result of the election.
If you don't accept this basic fact, there is no helping you.
With regards to Don Junior and Jarred Kusner et al:
In summarizing his findings from the infamous June 2016 meeting between members of the Trump campaign and Russian Natalia Veselnitskaya, Robert Mueller wrote that unlawful activity did take place in the Russian offering 'dirt' on Hillary Clinton. That's because US code 52 states, "'It shall be unlawful for a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value,"
The 'thing of value' in questions, was 'dirt' on Hillary Clinton.
Mueller wrote, 'The investigation has not developed evidence that the participants in the meeting were familiar with the foreign-contribution ban or the application of federal law to the relevant factual context.'
But no charges could possibly have been laid because:
1. There was no evidence given of any 'dirt' provided. Therefore there's no way of determining if the information was of value. In fact, evidence was given that the whole thing was a ruse to gain access to talk about getting visas. Also, had 'dirt' been used, it could have back-fired if it's turned out to be false.
2. There is much precedence where information from foreign Nationals have been used by political campaigns.
a) Remember, the initial story about the Russians having dirt on Trump was given to the Obama administration by the Australian government from their ambassador in the UK - a foreign national!
b) The fake dossier on Trump which got the FISA warrant which allowed the Obama administration to spy on the Trump campaign was paid for and obtained by the Clinton campaign from British national Steele (I can't remember his first name - he was former MI6). So you'd have to indict the Clinton campaign for sure.
3. Mueller further stated, 'To prove that a defendant acted "knowingly and willfully," the government would have to show that the defendant had general knowledge that his conduct was unlawful,'
4. If a conviction had been sought and stuck, the precedent would be that any opposition research sought or obtained from or via a foreign source, of proven to be of value to the campaign, would have breached US code 52. That would probably mean every campaign administration has been in breach.
Donald Trump Junior tweeted the emails relating to meetings which you can read here, https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/884789418455953413 and here, https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/884789839522140166
I will address the Don Seniors tax returns.
Don't Senior's Tax Returns
The media and the Democrats seem to have a ton ear on this issue. That or deliberately ignorance and dis-information
Firstly, it should be stated that it is not a requirement to run for president that you release your tax returns. In recent decades, that has been the practice, but Trump can be considered a special case because of the extent of his wealth and business dealings. It isn't a straight forward matter for him.
There is no question that he made all the compulsory financial disclosures including all of his company holdings and investments. He also placed all of his finances in a blind trust so he had no involvement in the management of his wealth during his presidency.
That said, Trump had always promised to release his tax returns as soon as they were finalised. They were due to be finalised well before the election. There had been a long term issue with some of his arrangements with the IRS. He had come to an interim arrangement and the IRS and his lawyers had come to a final agreement.
The long-running claim that Trump can't release his tax returns because there's an audit going on is true. The IRS did their review. It was about a refund he received in 2010. But it has to be approved by a Congressional joint committee. This has been sitting at the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation since 2011!
As the Washington Examiner wrote:
'Thus, as always, wherever there's a screw-up or inefficiency in the system, Congress is at the bottom of it. After all, they're also responsible for all the other parts of the tax system.'
They also wrote sensibly about the New York Times 'release' of Trumps tax information when they simultaneously claimed he was dodging taxes, but also making huge losses. If you are making huge losses, you wouldn't owe huge tax amounts!
The main reason I know for sure that there is nothing particularly damaging to be seen in Trump's tax returns, is that they have not been leaked.
We know the IRS is solidly Left wing. They were happy under Obama to deliberately Target Republicans and their donors. If there was anything damaging in Trump's tax returns it would have been leaked. You can guarantee it.
Having a Facebook argument with someone from my grammar schoold ays - a labor Democrat who hates Trump.
Susan said:
Timothy Birdnow lol @ russian "hoax"
I replied:
LOL at hoax denial Susan Longinette. The whole thing came from Hillary Clinton's campaign, which hired Christopher Steele and Fusion GPS to create dirt on Trump. https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/10/hillary-clinton-orchestrated-russia-collusion-farce/ John Brennan briefed Barack Obama on this scheme, based on his own handwritten notes, I might add, so Obama was on board with this. See https://news.yahoo.com/dni-releases-cia-documents-hillary-204337457.html and https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/russia-hoax-lie-hillary-clinton-gregg-jarrett There was no evidence and the Mueller Report - despite being full of Democrat operatives - couldn't make any case. It was entirely a hit to drive Trump first from the campaign then from office. Anyone who looks at this honestly has to admit this was a coup.
That Susan is why so many of us believe this last election was stolen; there was a titanic effort to drive Trump from office. There was blackmail and threats against electors before the EC met in2016, and there was a boycott of his inaugural. There were articles of impeachment against Trump as early as spring of 2017. He was endlessly investigated. He received 92% negative coverage from the media. https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/09/trump-tv-coverage-negative-summer/ He was impeached for something he "dog whistled" while Joe Biden actually bragged about doing (withholding funds from Ukraine). But then we are supposed to believe this last election was pure as the wind driven snow, despite the many odd things involving it (illegal changes in election laws in states by judges and Governors, refusing to match signatures on mail-in ballots, moving ballots around and losing chain of custody, shutting down vote counting when Trump was pulling ahead and then miraculously finding 100% of all subsequent votes were for Biden, the failure of all bellweathers to accurately predict the election, the failure of the President to have coattails either way, etc.)
So now Susan we can't even get justice when a man caught red-handed forging evidence against Trump is sentenced. Is it any wonder so many people won't accept Joe Biden as legitimate?
Susan says:
I'm saying that so don hr and jared meeting with the Russians was Hillary 's fault? Hmm really?
He was investigated because he appeared to be committing or having committed crimes. As an example I don't know that had he released his tax records as promised that they would have been scrutinized nearly as they are but he fought tooth and nail against releasing them. That isn't why he was impeached Timmy. He was impeached for the quid pro quo which he clearly was guilty of but the Republican controlled senate under m.m. was able to hold off the guilty verdict. He manipulated every aspect of his impeachment. Witnesses were not allowed to testify etc. The level of power he was able establish over his fellow Republicans is truly fightening. Poer through fear and intimidation and threats. Questioning him in anyway put a fellow Republican at risk it seemed. The issue with the election occurred because trump manipulated the election process across the board. With u.s. postal service for one and that's elections have been in parts of the country forever astonishingly signatures etc. It wasnt changed. Trump wanted it changed because he knew he would lose if it didnt. Where was there a lid of custody. What's that about shutting down vote counting? C'mon.
I don't understand how you don't see in general he was not good for America and Americans.
I retort:
Susan Longinette you say "I'm saying that so don hr and jared meeting with the Russians was Hillary 's fault?" First, Trump is a free citizen and a businessman who does international business. What, he's not allowed to meet with people from overseas? Second, Hillary's campaign hired Fusion GPS who hired british spy Christopher Steele to invent this crap. Or doesn't that matter to you? It was a political hit from the beginning.
You say "He was impeached for the quid pro quo which he clearly was guilty of but the Republican controlled senate under m.m. was able to hold off the guilty verdict." Uh, your proof Susan? Where did he say he was withholding money from the Ukrainians? Joe Biden actually DID say it to the Ukrainians, and bragged about having forced them to fire the prosecutor looking into his son's business dealings. Nothing happened to your boy Joe but the Democrats impeached Trump. It was purely political and you know it. Oh, wait...it was a DOG WHISTLE again! Why do you Democrats always hear dog whistles?
Susan, that impeachment was a farce. Trump's defense was not allowed to question witnesses, for example, during the House hearings. It was purely political and YOU KNOW IT. Why do you suppose they waited so long to impeach Trump? A bill of impeachment was introduced by Democrats in early 2017 but Pelosi killed it repeatedly. Why? She knew there was no case. She resisted bringing that case up because she knew she had nothing, but her frothing at the mouth caucus insisted, and she wanted it to at least tarnish Trump for the election. Otherwise she would have allowed it to come much earlier. She knew there was no there there.
Susan, Trump did not manipulate the Post Office. You clearly don't understand how the USPS works; it is a private corporation owned by the U.S. government, but it IS private. It draws no funds from the treasury, but is financed by sales of stamps. Trump did not in any way tamper with it; he can't. He has no authority. He does not appoint
Trump had the media against him almost entirely. He had the Democrats against him. He had the GOP Establishment against him. He had all the big tech companies against him (worth probably over a billion dollars in campaign donations to Biden.) So how did he manipulate the electoral process? From what I can see it was the Democrats who manipulated the electoral process - from changing electoral laws (like altering dates for the receipt of absentee ballots without state congressional approval) and imposing mail-in voting ( something quite different than absentee voting), something the Carter-Baker Commission warned would be catastrophic as it was ripe for vote fraud. They sent out ballots to addresses without being requested, for example. That means a lot of ballots were floating around just waiting to be filled out.
If Trump had this great power over the election - and without a real organization or network - than why did he lose at all? He should have had no trouble.
Susan, why did the Democrats sue to stop matching signatures between voter registration and mail-in ballots? https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/23/pennsylvania-court-ballot-signatures-431794There is only one reason and you know what that is. That was clearly about defrauding the electoral system. I think you know this.
Yes, there was loss of chain of custody in multiple places. See https://georgiastarnews.com/2020/12/25/nearly-two-thirds-of-georgia-counties-fail-to-produce-chain-of-custody-documents-for-460000-absentee-ballots-after-the-november-3-general-election/ and https://tennesseestar.com/2021/01/04/cnn-fumbles-georgia-ballot-chain-of-custody-fact-check/ here and https://georgiastarnews.com/2020/12/05/dekalb-county-cannot-find-chain-of-custody-records-for-absentee-ballots-deposited-in-drop-boxes-it-has-not-been-determined-if-responsive-records-to-your-request-exist/ here for a few examples about this in Georgia. Here is an example of chain of custody being broken in Pennsylvania. https://thepostmillennial.com/pennsylvania-state-hearing-on-election-fraud-alleges-missing-and-uncounted-votes/ also https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2020/11/25/285354-n285354 Also Arizona https://prescottenews.com/index.php/2020/12/27/election-integrity-group-releases-1400-page-super-appendix-demonstrating-extensive-lawlessness-in-swing-states-during-the-2020-general-election/
BTW There was an Arizona firm with close ties to the Democrats who sent fraudulent ballots to the Georgia runoff and it is still under investigation. https://thespectator.info/2021/01/02/arizona-firm-that-allegedly-sent-fake-ballots-to-georgia-runbeck-election-services-is-closely-tied-to-democrat-party/
Mark Zuckerberg spent millions on a project to give local election boards new equipment in this election. Why do you suppose that is?
And yes vote counting was shut down in multiple battleground states in key districts at the same time on election night. https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/11/04/americans-suspicious-and-outraged-after-key-dem-run-cities-stop-counting-votes-on-election-day-992614/ and https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/us-election-what-happened-in-key-battleground-states-on-election-night/news-story/2037f4baa76cab7e378fdd468ffe22f1
This election was handled in a profoundly different way than any in the past. Judges overturned election laws. So did Democratic governors. Any reasonable person who actually looks at this knows something very fishy happened on election night. And do you really think that after spending four years trying to remove this President - the legally elected POTUS - that the enemies of Donald Trump would NOT try to steal this election?
C'mon Susan!
You could have done this research as easily as I. You are purposely burying your head in the sand.
And yes he WAS good for America and Americans. On his watch we saw the destruction of ISIS, and at the same time Trump was the first President in half a century to not get us into a foreign war. Under his watch we saw an end to nuclear testing by North Korea. Under his watch we saw NATO and the Europeans pay more of their share for their own defense. Under his watch we saw several Arab countries make peace with Israel. We saw a big decline in the number of "refugees" coming from Muslim countries into both Europe and the U.S. We saw a rebalancing of trade with the elimination of NAFTA (something union people claimed to have wanted until Trump did it). We saw the opening of federal land to hydraulic fracturing and the subsequent decline in prices of oil and natural gas, and America becoming the leading exporter of oil in the world as a result. Did you like four dollar a gallon gas that we saw during the Obama era? Gas was under two bucks in most places in the U.S. on Trump's watch.
We saw record employment for African Americans and Hispanics, and full employment for everyone else. Had it not been for the shutting down of the Ameriican economy due to the pandemic Trump would have sailed to an easy victory in the election.
We saw industries being revived and manufacturing plants moving back to the U.S.
We saw a steep dropoff in illegal immigration to America and a much tighter southern border. Or do you like people just strolling in here to steal our jobs and social services and perhaps plot terrorist attacks against us?
Speaking of terrorist attacks, there were few agaomst is during the Trump years.
Trump ended the anti-American Paris Accords. He ended the ridiculously foolish Iran deal (which allowed Iran to ultimately obtain a nuclear weapon.) He ended the onerous individual mandate for Obamacare (which he had to do since the Republicans would not replace that horrible legislation.) My brother Brian was being killed by the fine he had to pay for noth having insurance - a grossly unconstitutional thing, I might add. He was delighted to be liberated from that money grab, but now under Biden he'll be forced into doing it again.
We all saw our taxes go down under Trump. That includes both personal and corporate (which is important because it means more businesses will base in the U.S.)
I could go on and on.
And Trump showed just how horribly corrupt Washington really is, and how there are two sets of laws, one for them and another for the faceless rabble that is the rest of America.
But, but, but Trump caused DIVISION we are told. Whose fault was that? Trump didn't cause division, his enemies did because they would not accept his Presidency.
And despite all the Democrat-sanctioned riots and looting that occured, Trump never sent in military force to quell them because he believed in Federalism and waited to be asked by the Democrat state governors. Trump tried to address the alleged underlying issues - like criminal justice reform. BTW Joe Biden was one of the driving forces behind the three strikes you are out and forfeiture laws that were at the core of black complaints about being mistreated by the police. HE was the architect. Not Trump, who reformed it.
Susan, do you really want an America where international institutions can reach into the pockets of taxpayers, where men can put on women's clothes and go into women's restrooms, where government can oppress Christian churches for not embracing homosexuality or other things they consider morally objectionable? That is what YOUR GUY is pushing. Do you want eight buck a gallon gas as they have in France? Do you want America to be swallowed up by immigrants who do not know what America is supposed to be and intend to maintain the culture they jsut left? Do you think it is good to keep Balkanizing America into warring groups and factions? Do you want suppression of free speech as we are seeing happen now? Do you want guilt until proven innocent as we saw during the Obama era on college campuses?
America is looking more and more like the Soviet Union we fought against, and Trump stemmed that tide for a time. Biden will only accelerate it. Socialism, my dear, is a terrible, failed ideology condemned by the Catholic Church, for one. But it's at the heart of the modern Democratic Party, which is no longer even remotely the Party you grew up with.
The worst you can say about Trump is he is a jackass. Well, I didn't hire him for his personality. He was an executive officer. Frankly, had he not been so hated by so many I would have been concerned, as it would have meant he was being ineffectual. The hatred of Trump stemmed in no small part from his effectiveness. We needed a reformer. The more a reformer is needed the more such a person will be hated. Trump was truly hated.
I didn't like the man myself, and I didn't support him in the priamry, but the way the Washington Establishment turned purple over him made it clear he was on the right track.
I think that if you could move past your prejudice to Republicans (something which Mr. Trump was not) and actually look at this objectively you would see how very wrong you are.
James Doogue adds:
Susan, I respect that you have remained civil in your debate here. That's something many on the Left of politics can't seem to do. I appreciate that.
I have read your responses above and below, and I don't want to go into a detailed rebuttal with citations because it is clear to me that you haven't been given the full facts. I'll just take two issues. Don Junior's "meeting with the Russians", and Don Senior's tax returns.
"Meeting with the Russians"
Firstly you have to accept that almost three years of thorough investigation into the Trump campaign found there was ZERO evidence that there was any collusion with the Russians to influence the result of the election.
If you don't accept this basic fact, there is no helping you.
With regards to Don Junior and Jarred Kusner et al:
In summarizing his findings from the infamous June 2016 meeting between members of the Trump campaign and Russian Natalia Veselnitskaya, Robert Mueller wrote that unlawful activity did take place in the Russian offering 'dirt' on Hillary Clinton. That's because US code 52 states, "'It shall be unlawful for a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value,"
The 'thing of value' in questions, was 'dirt' on Hillary Clinton.
Mueller wrote, 'The investigation has not developed evidence that the participants in the meeting were familiar with the foreign-contribution ban or the application of federal law to the relevant factual context.'
But no charges could possibly have been laid because:
1. There was no evidence given of any 'dirt' provided. Therefore there's no way of determining if the information was of value. In fact, evidence was given that the whole thing was a ruse to gain access to talk about getting visas. Also, had 'dirt' been used, it could have back-fired if it's turned out to be false.
2. There is much precedence where information from foreign Nationals have been used by political campaigns.
a) Remember, the initial story about the Russians having dirt on Trump was given to the Obama administration by the Australian government from their ambassador in the UK - a foreign national!
b) The fake dossier on Trump which got the FISA warrant which allowed the Obama administration to spy on the Trump campaign was paid for and obtained by the Clinton campaign from British national Steele (I can't remember his first name - he was former MI6). So you'd have to indict the Clinton campaign for sure.
3. Mueller further stated, 'To prove that a defendant acted "knowingly and willfully," the government would have to show that the defendant had general knowledge that his conduct was unlawful,'
4. If a conviction had been sought and stuck, the precedent would be that any opposition research sought or obtained from or via a foreign source, of proven to be of value to the campaign, would have breached US code 52. That would probably mean every campaign administration has been in breach.
Donald Trump Junior tweeted the emails relating to meetings which you can read here, https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/884789418455953413 and here, https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/884789839522140166
I will address the Don Seniors tax returns.
Don't Senior's Tax Returns
The media and the Democrats seem to have a ton ear on this issue. That or deliberately ignorance and dis-information
Firstly, it should be stated that it is not a requirement to run for president that you release your tax returns. In recent decades, that has been the practice, but Trump can be considered a special case because of the extent of his wealth and business dealings. It isn't a straight forward matter for him.
There is no question that he made all the compulsory financial disclosures including all of his company holdings and investments. He also placed all of his finances in a blind trust so he had no involvement in the management of his wealth during his presidency.
That said, Trump had always promised to release his tax returns as soon as they were finalised. They were due to be finalised well before the election. There had been a long term issue with some of his arrangements with the IRS. He had come to an interim arrangement and the IRS and his lawyers had come to a final agreement.
The long-running claim that Trump can't release his tax returns because there's an audit going on is true. The IRS did their review. It was about a refund he received in 2010. But it has to be approved by a Congressional joint committee. This has been sitting at the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation since 2011!
As the Washington Examiner wrote:
'Thus, as always, wherever there's a screw-up or inefficiency in the system, Congress is at the bottom of it. After all, they're also responsible for all the other parts of the tax system.'
They also wrote sensibly about the New York Times 'release' of Trumps tax information when they simultaneously claimed he was dodging taxes, but also making huge losses. If you are making huge losses, you wouldn't owe huge tax amounts!
The main reason I know for sure that there is nothing particularly damaging to be seen in Trump's tax returns, is that they have not been leaked.
We know the IRS is solidly Left wing. They were happy under Obama to deliberately Target Republicans and their donors. If there was anything damaging in Trump's tax returns it would have been leaked. You can guarantee it.
Posted by: Timothy Birdnow at
09:39 AM
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