January 22, 2021
Third Party
Timothy Birdnow
I just heard Rush Limbaugh disparage the idea of going third party again.
Albert Einstein put it best; "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". Rush is a genius, no doubt, but he's stuck in the past at this point - at least in this regard.
I've always thought going third party was foolish, but it has become clear both parties are flip sides of the same coin and I am not insane. Supporting the GOP just to give them numbers is a suckers game. That is what McConnell and the other RINO'S are counting on. But it serves no purpose at this point; we now see the political process is stacked against us. Our opinion does not matter, and the powers that be will not let us use our voices.
So, go to Hell fast or slow? Either way we wind up in the 'tarnal flames.
So why not at least try to create a new party? At this point there is nothing to lose.
Roy W. Spencer disagrees to a point:
I'm still 'generally' open to the idea, but try to think through what happens next. How will you even have as many people as the Democrat party? You won't get all of the Republicans... maybe half. Where are the others going to come from? The Libertarians already know what this is like. I'm open to alternative views.
Tim replies:
Roy W. Spencer I agree, and it's why I've never advocated this before. I've always believed in trying to hold on and stop the Demoleft. But I fear at this point the GOP has no interest in fighting, only in slowing the rush to socialism a bit. We should still support Republicans if they deserve it - like Josh Hawley or Ted Cruz, for example. But my other Senator is Roy Blunt, and I'm not going to vote for him the next time he's up. will it cost us? Quite probably, but we have to take action now, not hope for some in a generation. I'd rather go down swinging than die hiding under my bed. I am convinced the Republicans are unreformable at this point. I agree; it will be HARD to create a base for a third party. America is a two party nation, and that comes from the way we do elections. The Federal system and electoral college make third parties problematic. BUT we've had them in the past. Certainly the GOP was a third party (well, the Whigs had fallen apart) which succeeded. It is my hope that the Conservatives walk out of the GOP and that party then withers away. I know it's a long shot, but otherwise we continue something that has been shown to be a spectacular failure, following the GOP. The RINO wing hates us as much as the Democrats. It's time for a divorce. And as Saul Alinsky said "if you push a negative long and hard enough it can break through and become a positive". What might start off as a pitiful third party could possibly grow when people see they actually mean to keep their promises. Trump was essentially a third party candidate who ran as a Republican. There are a LOT of disaffected Trump voters. And I wonder if the Democratic coalition can hold together if the GOP splinters; their primary impetus, the fear of Republicans and their negative branding, will be gone and the natural animosities of the Left will splinter them as well. I'm not saying it will work for certain, and in fact I rather suspect it will not, but what does allegiance to the GOP do for us at this point? Had the Republicans fought for Trump at any time he would have won. They engineered his defeat (well, apparent defeat) as much as the Democrats and media. If nothing else they did not move his agenda forward, and they did not resist when the Democrats attacked the President. That's a minimum. At this point I don't think it matters if we stick with the GOP or not. I at least plan to vote my conscience over supporting the party because they have an R behind their names.
I think we need to work it the way they operate with the Conservative Party in New York; it's a tool to keep the GOP honest. They only run candidates when the GOP drops the ball. Perhaps we can do something comparable? I agree; we need to think this through and come up with a solid battle plan.
I just heard Rush Limbaugh disparage the idea of going third party again.
Albert Einstein put it best; "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". Rush is a genius, no doubt, but he's stuck in the past at this point - at least in this regard.
I've always thought going third party was foolish, but it has become clear both parties are flip sides of the same coin and I am not insane. Supporting the GOP just to give them numbers is a suckers game. That is what McConnell and the other RINO'S are counting on. But it serves no purpose at this point; we now see the political process is stacked against us. Our opinion does not matter, and the powers that be will not let us use our voices.
So, go to Hell fast or slow? Either way we wind up in the 'tarnal flames.
So why not at least try to create a new party? At this point there is nothing to lose.
Roy W. Spencer disagrees to a point:
I'm still 'generally' open to the idea, but try to think through what happens next. How will you even have as many people as the Democrat party? You won't get all of the Republicans... maybe half. Where are the others going to come from? The Libertarians already know what this is like. I'm open to alternative views.
Tim replies:
Roy W. Spencer I agree, and it's why I've never advocated this before. I've always believed in trying to hold on and stop the Demoleft. But I fear at this point the GOP has no interest in fighting, only in slowing the rush to socialism a bit. We should still support Republicans if they deserve it - like Josh Hawley or Ted Cruz, for example. But my other Senator is Roy Blunt, and I'm not going to vote for him the next time he's up. will it cost us? Quite probably, but we have to take action now, not hope for some in a generation. I'd rather go down swinging than die hiding under my bed. I am convinced the Republicans are unreformable at this point. I agree; it will be HARD to create a base for a third party. America is a two party nation, and that comes from the way we do elections. The Federal system and electoral college make third parties problematic. BUT we've had them in the past. Certainly the GOP was a third party (well, the Whigs had fallen apart) which succeeded. It is my hope that the Conservatives walk out of the GOP and that party then withers away. I know it's a long shot, but otherwise we continue something that has been shown to be a spectacular failure, following the GOP. The RINO wing hates us as much as the Democrats. It's time for a divorce. And as Saul Alinsky said "if you push a negative long and hard enough it can break through and become a positive". What might start off as a pitiful third party could possibly grow when people see they actually mean to keep their promises. Trump was essentially a third party candidate who ran as a Republican. There are a LOT of disaffected Trump voters. And I wonder if the Democratic coalition can hold together if the GOP splinters; their primary impetus, the fear of Republicans and their negative branding, will be gone and the natural animosities of the Left will splinter them as well. I'm not saying it will work for certain, and in fact I rather suspect it will not, but what does allegiance to the GOP do for us at this point? Had the Republicans fought for Trump at any time he would have won. They engineered his defeat (well, apparent defeat) as much as the Democrats and media. If nothing else they did not move his agenda forward, and they did not resist when the Democrats attacked the President. That's a minimum. At this point I don't think it matters if we stick with the GOP or not. I at least plan to vote my conscience over supporting the party because they have an R behind their names.
I think we need to work it the way they operate with the Conservative Party in New York; it's a tool to keep the GOP honest. They only run candidates when the GOP drops the ball. Perhaps we can do something comparable? I agree; we need to think this through and come up with a solid battle plan.
Posted by: Timothy Birdnow at
12:42 PM
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1
All of that assumes that there is any real purpose in voting at all. I think the 2020 election proved pretty conclusively that there is not. The establishment demonstrated that it can openly, blatantly control the election and create a one party state. We are all California now, where voting is purely symbolic.
Posted by: Bill H at January 23, 2021 12:55 AM (vMiSr)
2
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Posted by: Samy Mor at January 24, 2021 01:14 AM (2+6F2)
4
I agree with you, Bill. There was a time, not so long ago, that you could vote and have confidence that your vote was recorded properly. Those times are gone now. I predict that, at least in four years, there will be far fewer votes cast than there were in 2020.
Posted by: Dana Mathewson at January 27, 2021 10:03 AM (tpX14)
5
And Dana, as voting drops off they Democrats will use it as an excuse to implement even more of their dirty tricks in the interest of "making everyone's vote count". It's a machine designed to give them eternal power.
Voting is now basically a suggestion.
You know, here in Missouri, which is controlled by Republicans, we passed a constitutional amendment to not authorize in any way the Real I.D. act. When the Feds said they would ban travel from Missouri if the state didn't "comply" the state legislature overruled the referendum and implemented the act. What was the point of having the referendum in the first place, if the legislature was going to crumble? I dare the Feds to stop an entire state from getting on airplanes based on a coercive law like that! Missouri should have made a major legal challenge, but they preferred the easy path. Now I have to get a real I.D. to fly to Nashville next fall for my nephew's wedding.
We need men of principle, but have none.
Voting is now basically a suggestion.
You know, here in Missouri, which is controlled by Republicans, we passed a constitutional amendment to not authorize in any way the Real I.D. act. When the Feds said they would ban travel from Missouri if the state didn't "comply" the state legislature overruled the referendum and implemented the act. What was the point of having the referendum in the first place, if the legislature was going to crumble? I dare the Feds to stop an entire state from getting on airplanes based on a coercive law like that! Missouri should have made a major legal challenge, but they preferred the easy path. Now I have to get a real I.D. to fly to Nashville next fall for my nephew's wedding.
We need men of principle, but have none.
Posted by: Timothy Birdnow at January 28, 2021 09:11 AM (jBr0T)
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