Propaganda Poster Boy

Timothy Birdnow

An idiot on Facebook makes a fool of himself.

Murizio Morabito (not the fool) makes the following point:

Mad Mike Cacic (the fool) sneers:

Even if Russians felt that way it’s because they are spoon fed (mis)information that leads them to feel that way.


Tim replies:

I think that is an overly simplified concept Mike. If you look at the facts you can see why the Russians would be upset. First, NATO has no reason to exist anymore; it was designed as a bulwark against the old Soviet Union and their Warsaw Pact. The Warsaw Pact was dissolved but NATO remained. That is ominous to the average Russian. Then you have the Orange Revolution, which was basically a coup by the CIA. The Russians invaded Crimea at the request of ethnic Russians in the region who had sought an autonomous relationship with Kiev. The Ukrainians were mad about losing this region and regularly shelled it - an act of war. They diverted the Dneiper river so as to cause a permanent, artificial drought there. The Russians complained at the U.N. bitterly about this but to no avail. The U.S. had a number of "research labs" doing biological research akin to the one that released the Covid pandemic at Wuhan. And the Ukrainians were threatening to cut the Russian oil and gas pipelines through their country. None of that is "propaganda" but rather solid fact. NATO was also chewing on expanding into the Baltic States and Georgia, further encircling Russia. We had made moves into Afghanistan and Iraq and Syria, too. All the average Russian had to do was look at a map and see where Americans were set up. It was guaranteed to make them nervous. Even the Iran nuclear deal was probably disturbing; Russia has it's share of problems with Islamic radicals and allowing iran - a strategic ally of theirs - to get nuclear weapons probably frightened them a bit. Not enough to do anything about it, of course. Putin's motives are probably quite bad in all this (and I blame him for the war to a large degree) but this stuff, while simply unimportant or trivial to us, is of profound concern to the average Russian. They have been invaded so many times in their history and don't want to have to bury more of their families.

Muddled Mike replies:

It seems you’ve been taken in by the psy ops yourself. Do you really think the US would set up bio weapons labs in Ukraine next to Russia where’d they’d be easily compromised by Russian spies? Putin didn’t even make that claim until the traitorous US right wing made that up. If Putin was really concerned about the plight of ethnic Russians he would have found a way to help them other than invading Ukraine. That was just a pretext.

Tim retorts:

Mike Cacic you say:

"Do you really think the US would set up bio weapons labs in Ukraine next to Russia where’d they’d be easily compromised by Russian spies?"

Yes I do. What the U.S. has been doing is illegal by American law and even is illegal overseas, so it required a place without oversight., and who else is crazy enough to accept a bioweapons lab on their own soil?

It also acts as a deterrent to the Russians.

Nobody is worried about theft; the Russians have Crispr technology same as do we. This isn't like stealing blueprints.

Look the American government didn't even particularly try to hide it. I've seen the order from the NIH to establish these facilities. Of course they didn't call them bioweapons labs, but they were doing "gain of function" research, which doesn't take a genius to figure out what they were doing.

And even if they weren't doing bioweapons research, that isn't the point. The point is the Russians thought they were. And the U.S. government admitted they were there. https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-biolabs-why-become-focus-202159944.html

Uh, your conservative hating is making you irrational. Who is the traitor?

"If Putin was really concerned about the plight of ethnic Russians he would have found a way to help them other than invading Ukraine. That was just a pretext."

Perhaps, but how? Do tell!

Putin had taken that to the U.N. already to no avail.

I think Putin used it as a justification too, but it does in no way change the fact that the Russians had legitimate grievances, and the Russian People had reasons to be concerned, contrary to your unsupported claim.

Your "conservative traitors" crack shows you are not a reasonable or intelligent person and not worth a rational discussion, I might add. And you are woefully ignorant of anything but media propaganda. Old Mike wants to go down swinging:

Your article reiterated what I said. Where’s your proof that something illegal was going on? Telegram? Infowars? Russian state news? I said the traitorous right wing. Not that all conservatives are traitors. Liz Cheney for example is an example of an honorable conservative. All too rare nowadays. Most have no real ideology beyond a desire for power

Tim replies:

One must be quite deceived to think there was not bioweapons research going on in those labs. Why build them in Ukraine in the first place if they were perfectly legal?

Ecohealth Alliance, who runs many of the Ukrainian labs, was the same company involved with the Wuhan lab. Ditto Metabiota. And both worked with USAID, receiving government grants. Both were heavily involved in Gain of Function research in China.

Again, there is no good reason to be setting up such dangerous labs in a country as corrupt and unstable as Ukraine. There is only one good reason; to avoid any controlling legal authority.

Liz Chaney an honorable conservative? She's a traitor, and no traitor is honorable even if you agree with them. I fear you are believing only that which you want to believe. I reiterate; you have disqualified yourself as a person worth a serious discussion Mike. You are clearly just partisan and buy into the psyops of the Administration and the media.

Mauritzio adds:





Mike Ćaćić having Ms Cheney's father celebrated by the Dems in Congress is not a good indication of honorable conservatism - it is a lot more compatible with the War Party having been expelled from today's GOP, after eight years of finish-no-war Bombama and four miraculously no-new-war years of Trump

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/january-6-cheney/2022/01/06/72665baa-6f1e-11ec-974b-d1c6de8b26b0_story.html

Tim there is a point that evidence for those claims is missing - I don't spend any time defending them, for the same reason

Ukraine post-1991 has been the crucible of devilish activities, mostly weapons trafficking. So I wouldn't be surprised about dodgy labs. But we cannot show much about them like for example for corrupt officials selling all the arms they could get their hands on.

I reply:

I had the original order from USAID which showed it clearly. If I can find it again I will post it up Maurizio. But we do wwe actually know about this? We know there were U.S. companies running biological labs in Ukraine, and those labs were probably doing gain of function research. We don't know for certain they were doing weapons research, or even that they were doing risky research, but again, why have them in Ukraine at all? And the point here is not even what they were doing but what the Russians would think they were doing, no? Were I a Russian citizen and learned these labs were there I would assume they were making bioweapons to use against Russia. That is the whole point. It's all about what the Russians think in this instance. Mike argues that this is just propaganda and the Russians are duped, but we made it so easy to dupe them by running multiple labs in Ukraine. What are they supposed to think? The Soviets may have just wanted a test sight for their rockets in Cuba too back in 1962. But we couldn't pretend this wasn't what it looked like. Certainly we had the Biological Weapons Threat Reduction Program running labs in Ukraine. https://ua.usembassy.gov/embassy/kyiv/sections-offices/defense-threat-reduction-office/biological-threat-reduction-program/ and while that may have been just about destroying old Soviet weapons, one must ask how it looks to the Russian People, most especially since those weapons go back to the '90's and thesse labs are still operating in 2022.

Posted by: Timothy Birdnow at 10:08 AM | Comments (2) | Add Comment
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