Tlimothy Birdnow

I had an interesting and a bit contentious argument on Facebook between myself and a friend an a big liberal. I thought I'd reproduce the thread here; it's interesting.

First, my friend John says:

It’s not all sunshine & rainbows for AOC in Queens. She will have challengers in the next election...

Jim (the liberal)  says the following

She’s 1 of 5 republicans running in that race in a district where democrats traditionally win by 30%. I don’t think AOC will get much heat,

This from John

Jim Yes it is a Dem district but she will also get a challenge from the Dems. She got the district because the incumbent thought it was a slam dunk and no one got out & voted for him.

Jim says:

That’s a theory. Another is she organized a massive volunteer canvas that outworked the 10 time incumbent. But I’ll bet you a Woofie’s Hot Dog lunch she wins again and continues to trigger conservatives! Speaking of lunch, it’s been too long. Next time you’re in the area and have time, ring me up and I’ll treat you to a Village Bar burger. We need to catch up!

John says:

Trust me, she’s triggering Dems worse because behind the scenes, Reps in the House would love to strangle her. The further left she goes, the more people are going to vote for Trump!
Yes, we need to catch up

I ansswered:

She also received a lot of outside the district money  from Progressives. But she's a burr under Nancy Pelosi's saddle, and it may wind up the House Leadership pulls the rug out from under her come the Primaries. Trump has been playing it smart, severing AOC and the other Horsewomen from the Dem leadership.

John said:


Great points! Trump has played this scenario out brilliantly.
He’s forcing the Dems to decide whether they’re on the side of Nancy or the side of the Squad while exposing what the these 4 are all about.
It’s similar to when the green bill was introduced and there was all kinds of talk about it. Then Mitch McDonnell said to put your money where your mouth is and he put it up to a vote and it forced the Dems to decide. Ha...that was a wise move on his part. It showed that OAC didn’t have a lot of support. Trump is doing the same thing with forcing the Dems to pick a side.👍🏼

Jim answers:

The difference in this vs how the Tea Party disrupted the GOP, is the Green New Deal folks won't be setting party agendas, but they will have a voice that will be listened to. There is enough common ground to find reasonable solutions in the Democratic Party. The Tea Party had much higher numbers and absolutely wrecked the GOP's agenda to the point they had to cave in. trump is doing himself and his party no favors with his boorish behavior towards women and minorities. He'll always have his base who are willing to overlook his constant bullying, paying off pornstars and constant, daily, provable lies. But his base wasn't the difference in 16 - it was the 2 term Obama voters who didn't like Hilary. (From a USA Today poll) 68 percent of Americans who were aware of Trump’s tweets about the four liberal minority lawmakers said they are offensive. Overall, 59 percent called the president's tweets "un-American,” including independents by a 2-to-1 margin, and 65 percent of those surveyed said telling minority Americans to "go back where they came from” is a racist statement. The people representing those percentages were the ones who won trump the election and they are the ones who will cost him the next one. His massive ego and the belief that since his base keeps buying his lies and crudeness, that everybody does, will him from being re-elected - he can't help himself. He is anything but brilliant

I replied:

I agree, Jim, Hillary WAS a terrible candidate and no small part of why Trump won. But there are other things. People were fed up with the Ruling Class of both parties favoring this massive influx of aliens, for instance, and giving them priority over native born citizens. That was true before Trump came along; he just piggybacked on the dissatisfaction. The Blue Collar workers were tired of the plans of the elites to eliminate their jobs. They were tired of being told to suck it up. They were tired of the environmentalism that meant more to the powers that be than the People. They were tired of being insulted as red necked hillbillies. And none of that has changed. In fact, the Democrats have gone even further. You point out that polls show 65 percent of the public perceives Trump as racist in his comments. Maybe, although they have been increasingly wrong with the polls, especially in the 2016 election, but does anyone really think this particular tempest in a teapot is going to have legs? Most people in America fundamentally agree with the statement that an immigrant should be grateful to his chosen host country, or that someone in government shouldn't hate or disdain America. I remember when people used to say "go to Russia if you don't like it" or whatnot. This is hardly new and people are going to realize how silly the complaint is against Trump. Look, there are lots of reasons why someone may despise Trump, but this particular episode hardly qualifies. Oh, and that is precisely WHY so many people LOVE Trump; he fights, he pokes the Establishment in the eye. In fact, he is what John McCain tried to portray himself as; a maverick. As I say you can hate the guy (I'm a luke warmer myself) but you can hardly count him out. Oh,and Jim, if you hate politicians who lie you have to despise the entire American political class. I know I do.

Jim responds;

Tim, I’m sure if you’re a friend of John’s that you’re a nice guy, but you lost me with your "Horsewomen” comment in your prior comments. I know it’s popular with Republicans to make up cute little nicknames and repeat hateful, mindless chants about those who differ from you, but I find it divisive and childish and an example of what I teach my children daily what NOT to do or be like. I never said Hillary was a terrible candidate, so please don’t put words in my mouth. I could dissect what you said above, but honestly - I don’t know you well enough to care about your perspective and I need to get back to work. Have a good day.

\My response:

 I am certain you too are a good guy - John certainly thinks very highly of you. But I cannot understand your logic here.

First, the term horsewomen is quite mild, and perhaps even affectionate in a way; surely you remember the Four Horsemen of Notre Dame. It can be viewed as a tip of the hat to them. I'm not sure what you object to here. But be that as it may, let me ask you; why do you choose to make this the standard? Democrats have called Donald Trump a rapist, a racist, a traitor, a tyrant, Hitler, and even suggested he has had an incestuous relationship with his own daughter. I don't know that you are on board with that, but it's odd you draw the line with horsewomen. And it was not just Trump; the Democrats called George W. Bush a liar, a war criminal and Hitler (and he never responded, leading to polling numbers about equal to his shoe size at the end.) They called his father a liar and a warmonger. They called Ronald Reagan innumerable bad things. The IMPEACHED Richard Nixon after viciously attacking him. And they have done all of this to other Republicans as well. Remember Mitt Romney was portrayed as a bully and animal hater? What about the treatment of Brett Kavanaugh? Of Clarence Thomas? Robert Bork?

But horsewoman bothers you.

When we were children we were taught "sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me". Sadly, while people with whom you disagree are using words, many on the other side are actually using sticks and stones - and breaking bones. Antifa, Black Lives Mater, James Hodgekinson (you remember him; the Bernie Sanders supporter who tried to murder the Republicans in Congress), and a host of others. And there have been numerous assaults on kids and women and the like for wearing MAGA hats or whatnot. But you are bothered by horsewomen and chants of "send her back" - a reference largely to Ilhan Omar, an immigrant who refuses to condemn Antifa or ISIS, and these other terrorist acts and calls America garbage. That is an insult to the People OF AMERICA, NOT TRUMP. Trump said what many of us have been thinking. If you are an immigrant and don't like this country why not leave? Certainly any normal person who had a neighbor spouting hatred like Omar would say that to her face.

Trump and the conservatives didn't start the fight.

"Civility" has been a weapon of the Democrats for decades; when they are losing an argument they demand civility, even while knocking their opponents teeth down their throats. They understand that they can win if they can get the other side not to fight. That is exactly what has them so angry at Trump; he uses their own playbook against them. Saul Alinsky, leftist strategist, said "man's most potent weapon is ridicule" and the Democrats and their media allies have wielded that sword for a long time. The can't afford to let the other side do likewise. Well, Trump does it, which is why they hate him so much,

Btw: I don't think that anyone who is remotely honest with him or herself could disagree with the proposition that Hillary was a terrible candidate. It's the reason Trump was elected. . Had the Democrats run anyone else they probably would have won. Hillary had very high negatives with the public. is imperious and arrogant, had no real policy plan, articulated no reason why she should be President, was too weak to campaign, and wrote off a large swath of the country. . She also had all sorts of baggage and was corrupt.

Oh, and that last bit about you not caring about my perspective speaks volumes about your way of thinking.

At any rate, I hope you too have a good day. We can agree to disagree. I think we both love our country and want what's best for it. I just believe you are wrong here.

Posted by: Timothy Birdnow at 06:46 AM | No Comments | Add Comment
Post contains 1797 words, total size 11 kb.