March 23, 2022
The Flip Side of the Coin
Steven Chase
DID YOU KNOW....?
Zelensky, outlawed 11 political opposition parties in Ukraine, despite most of them condemning Putin's aggression. He didn't stop there, either. Yesterday, Zelensky NATIONALIZED all of the TV News stations, as well, Reuters reports.
The more I learn, the less I am sure of the bad guys here. One thing for certain, it's not as simple as the media's cheerleading.
John Roberts replies:
No, Steven, it is simple. A sovereign country was invaded. Your attempt at making a moral equivalence is misguided. We can argue that his response to being invaded is tyrannical but not who the bad guy is here.
Mr. Chase responds:
I respectfully withhold my judgement until all available facts are discovered. For example: research Bill Clinton's massive eastward expansion of NATO, despite pledges (treaties) to the contrary.
Tim retorts:
Well John Roberts, what does that make America?
Let me see; we invaded Cuba in the Spanish American War, Germany in WWI, Germany in WWII, North Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Iraq twice, Afghanistan, Kosovo, etc.
And there were countless military interventions that fell short of invasion, such as Syria, or Lebanon, or Somalia, or Chile' or the attempt at the Bay of Pigs to invade Cuba, or in Iran to reinstate the Shah, or any others.
Does that mean we are solely to blame for all of those actions? I don't think your reasoning is entirely sound.
I agree Putin and Russia are largely to blame here, but I don't think this particular argument is especially compelling.
Steven is correct; there ARE reasons for this. We may disagree with them,, but Putin did not act without purpose. WE expanded NATO into his back yard. WE tried to circumvent Russia's pipelines by building them through Georgia and Ukraine. Ukraine cut off all the water to the Crimean peninsula, causing a drought. Ukraine threatened to shut down Russian pipelines through their territory. It was the Ukrainian government that passed laws banning the use of Russian in the east, where it is spoken as a first language by a large majority of the population. And it was a joint Ukrainian/
Oh yes, and it was Western efforts that destroyed the Russian economy after the collapse of the Soviet Union that led to Putin's ascent to power. George Soros had a hand in that, you may remember. Soros is still walking around loose after having wiped out the fledgling Russia democratic system.
Think about the implications of that.
Again, I am not excusing Russia here, but showing there IS another side to this.
Oh, and to continue my list of American invasions: we TWICE invaded Canada, once during the Revolution and again during the War of 1812. We invaded Mexico. We gave military aid to proxys, in Nicaragua, in El Salvador, in Honduras. We sent a military occupation force to Saudi Arabia, which enraged Osama Bin Laden and led directly to the 911 attacks.
We invaded North Africa during WWII. We invaded Sicily and eventually Italy. We invaded France. We even invaded the southern half of our own country and held it under martial law for over a decade.
So to claim invading a country makes them automatically guilty means you MUST believe the U.S. is what Iran calls us - the Great Satan.
Gaetano Catelli adds:
A lot of human rights go out the window in wartime. But Zelensky knows Ukraine will have to have democratic norms to be a fully integrated member of the EU.
I respond:
The E.U. is itself in many ways not an entity that is a champion of human rights and liberties. Look at their laws against "xenophobia". Bridgit Bardot was put on trial for daring to say something bad about the Muslim community. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-bardot-muslims-idUSL1584799120080415
Is that a guarantor of human rights? The E.U. has mandated passport vaccines, allowed mass surveillance https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/surveillance-technologies/european-court-ruling-could-recognize-mass, imposed draconian regulations on almost every economic activity, and compelled countries to take in "refugees" whether they want them or not. The E.U. is tyrannical. See https://www.goodgovernment.org/the-european-union-is-a-tyranny/ and https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4804/eu-tyranny-law and https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/09/15/the-tyranny-of-the-eus-state-aid-rules/ for a few examples.
So, is the Zelensky crackdown something that will keep them out of the E.U., or is he imposing these rules to conform with the E.U.?
DID YOU KNOW....?
Zelensky, outlawed 11 political opposition parties in Ukraine, despite most of them condemning Putin's aggression. He didn't stop there, either. Yesterday, Zelensky NATIONALIZED all of the TV News stations, as well, Reuters reports.
The more I learn, the less I am sure of the bad guys here. One thing for certain, it's not as simple as the media's cheerleading.
John Roberts replies:
No, Steven, it is simple. A sovereign country was invaded. Your attempt at making a moral equivalence is misguided. We can argue that his response to being invaded is tyrannical but not who the bad guy is here.
Mr. Chase responds:
I respectfully withhold my judgement until all available facts are discovered. For example: research Bill Clinton's massive eastward expansion of NATO, despite pledges (treaties) to the contrary.
Tim retorts:
Well John Roberts, what does that make America?
Let me see; we invaded Cuba in the Spanish American War, Germany in WWI, Germany in WWII, North Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Iraq twice, Afghanistan, Kosovo, etc.
And there were countless military interventions that fell short of invasion, such as Syria, or Lebanon, or Somalia, or Chile' or the attempt at the Bay of Pigs to invade Cuba, or in Iran to reinstate the Shah, or any others.
Does that mean we are solely to blame for all of those actions? I don't think your reasoning is entirely sound.
I agree Putin and Russia are largely to blame here, but I don't think this particular argument is especially compelling.
Steven is correct; there ARE reasons for this. We may disagree with them,, but Putin did not act without purpose. WE expanded NATO into his back yard. WE tried to circumvent Russia's pipelines by building them through Georgia and Ukraine. Ukraine cut off all the water to the Crimean peninsula, causing a drought. Ukraine threatened to shut down Russian pipelines through their territory. It was the Ukrainian government that passed laws banning the use of Russian in the east, where it is spoken as a first language by a large majority of the population. And it was a joint Ukrainian/
Oh yes, and it was Western efforts that destroyed the Russian economy after the collapse of the Soviet Union that led to Putin's ascent to power. George Soros had a hand in that, you may remember. Soros is still walking around loose after having wiped out the fledgling Russia democratic system.
Think about the implications of that.
Again, I am not excusing Russia here, but showing there IS another side to this.
Oh, and to continue my list of American invasions: we TWICE invaded Canada, once during the Revolution and again during the War of 1812. We invaded Mexico. We gave military aid to proxys, in Nicaragua, in El Salvador, in Honduras. We sent a military occupation force to Saudi Arabia, which enraged Osama Bin Laden and led directly to the 911 attacks.
We invaded North Africa during WWII. We invaded Sicily and eventually Italy. We invaded France. We even invaded the southern half of our own country and held it under martial law for over a decade.
So to claim invading a country makes them automatically guilty means you MUST believe the U.S. is what Iran calls us - the Great Satan.
Gaetano Catelli adds:
A lot of human rights go out the window in wartime. But Zelensky knows Ukraine will have to have democratic norms to be a fully integrated member of the EU.
I respond:
The E.U. is itself in many ways not an entity that is a champion of human rights and liberties. Look at their laws against "xenophobia". Bridgit Bardot was put on trial for daring to say something bad about the Muslim community. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-bardot-muslims-idUSL1584799120080415
Is that a guarantor of human rights? The E.U. has mandated passport vaccines, allowed mass surveillance https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/surveillance-technologies/european-court-ruling-could-recognize-mass, imposed draconian regulations on almost every economic activity, and compelled countries to take in "refugees" whether they want them or not. The E.U. is tyrannical. See https://www.goodgovernment.org/the-european-union-is-a-tyranny/ and https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4804/eu-tyranny-law and https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/09/15/the-tyranny-of-the-eus-state-aid-rules/ for a few examples.
So, is the Zelensky crackdown something that will keep them out of the E.U., or is he imposing these rules to conform with the E.U.?
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The more I learn, the less I am sure of the bad guys here. One thing for certain, it's not as simple as the media's cheerleading.
Posted by: Fake Watches at August 24, 2023 12:44 AM (OAWTR)
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