April 22, 2022
Mesoamerican Civilizations?
Timothy Birdnow
Here is a Facebook discussion worth reproducing here.
Steven Chase says:
Ricardo Bacquera objects:
So you think all the Native Americans, the Mayans, Aztecs Incas & those before them that their height of intelligence was the teepee, canoe or a woven basket ? Do you happen to know where the largest pyramid in the world is? The Mayans had discovered the Solar System knew more about astrology and Math way before any other civilization!! But of course when the Europeans came they label them savages and barely human so that they could have a reason to pillage, steal their gold & silver and kill them. Ignorance is Bliss! Steven Chase responds:
Yeah, yeah... I've heard this all before. If you study Philosophy, Physics and Evolution you will notice a conspicuous absence of Mayan Scholars. What no Africans? Oh, they didn't have a written language until first explored by Europeans. Sorry.
As to 'savages'.... ALL MEN have been savage to one another since crawling out of the slime.
Ricardo rebuts:
You nigh have heard it before but done absolutely no research & your ignorance shows! I’ve been to Peru Machu Picchu twice, Bolivia,, Chili And Mexico researching & exploring ancient temples & you? Fox News?
Absence of Mayan Scholars? Really? Do you know that when the Spaniards landed in Mexico, the Mayans had disappeared 500 years before! Again Ignorance is bliss, right??🤔
I retort:
"Do you know that when the Spaniards landed in Mexico, the Mayans had disappeared 500 years before! Again Ignorance is bliss, right??🤔"
Strange; there are Mayans there today. What happened? Did they almost die out and come back? http://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.marc.ucsb.edu%2Fresearch%2Fmaya%2Fmaya-today&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjamY7Fp6j3AhW_q3IEHTmWA6IQFnoECAgQAg&usg=AOvVaw3mKKQYjmul0BurB-faFuxH
It appeared the Spanish had encounters with the Mayans. http://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theyucatantimes.com%2F2020%2F01%2Fthe-conquest-of-the-maya-a-long-battle%2F&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwib2rayqqj3AhUsg3IEHZrhAkYQFnoECAQQAg&usg=AOvVaw2DLCL7ol9pdqDYCXrd_LRE
In point of fact the Mayans and the Aztecs and Incans were all pretty savage in some regards, indulging in human sacrifice, and even some cannibalism. The Spanish may have been brutal but did not rise to the level of savagery of the Aztecs. That's why so many of the other natives supported Cortez when he showed up.
Also, tell me what they had that proved them civilized? The wheel? Nope. Written language? Nope. Did they work metals? Only silver, and that only for jewelry. Did any native Americans domesticate animals? Well, they domesticated the Llama and Alpaca, but only for basic carrying. There were no plows pulled by buffalo (which could have been domesticated as easily as oxen), no plows, for that matter.
The Aztecs and the Incans were not even remotely aware of each-other, unlike most civilized places in the ancient world (Rome and China knew of each-other and traded, for that matter so did Egypt and China).
There were no voyages of exploration. Nobody built any kind of truly sea-worthy craft. The MesoAmerican civilizations were essentially late stone age. I would add they also kept slaves as did the Europeans, and they indulged in ritual torture and the like - something NOT done by European slavemasters.
That's not to say they were completely lacking. The Mayans invented the concept of zero in mathematics independently. They did build good roads, and good aquaduct systems. There was a good deal for them to be proud of. But they just weren't in the same league as the Europeans.
There are reasons for that; among others, they never had a good staple crop except corn, which meant they had periods of famine when the corn failed. They didn't have horses. They didn't have good routes between the different civilizations. Perhaps most importantly, they didn't have a religoous tradition that helped to civilze them; they were stuck in pagan beliefs similar to the ancient world.
As I say, there are admirable qualities of these ancient civilizations in America, but in the end you cannot say they competed favorably with Europe, or Asia. They were savage and backward by and large and horribly despotic most of the time.
Here is a Facebook discussion worth reproducing here.
Steven Chase says:
"The question of
whether we have allowed western MATH to dominate is no less relevant
than whether we have allowed western authors to dominate the field of
literature."- Oxford University.
Again, the slow, self-inflicted destruction of Western Civilization.
..."the geometry of a teepee, canoe or a woven basket is just as important as theoretical physics or organic chemistry" -According to WOKE Academia
So you think all the Native Americans, the Mayans, Aztecs Incas & those before them that their height of intelligence was the teepee, canoe or a woven basket ? Do you happen to know where the largest pyramid in the world is? The Mayans had discovered the Solar System knew more about astrology and Math way before any other civilization!! But of course when the Europeans came they label them savages and barely human so that they could have a reason to pillage, steal their gold & silver and kill them. Ignorance is Bliss! Steven Chase responds:
Yeah, yeah... I've heard this all before. If you study Philosophy, Physics and Evolution you will notice a conspicuous absence of Mayan Scholars. What no Africans? Oh, they didn't have a written language until first explored by Europeans. Sorry.
As to 'savages'.... ALL MEN have been savage to one another since crawling out of the slime.
Ricardo rebuts:
You nigh have heard it before but done absolutely no research & your ignorance shows! I’ve been to Peru Machu Picchu twice, Bolivia,, Chili And Mexico researching & exploring ancient temples & you? Fox News?
Absence of Mayan Scholars? Really? Do you know that when the Spaniards landed in Mexico, the Mayans had disappeared 500 years before! Again Ignorance is bliss, right??🤔
I retort:
"Do you know that when the Spaniards landed in Mexico, the Mayans had disappeared 500 years before! Again Ignorance is bliss, right??🤔"
Strange; there are Mayans there today. What happened? Did they almost die out and come back? http://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.marc.ucsb.edu%2Fresearch%2Fmaya%2Fmaya-today&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjamY7Fp6j3AhW_q3IEHTmWA6IQFnoECAgQAg&usg=AOvVaw3mKKQYjmul0BurB-faFuxH
It appeared the Spanish had encounters with the Mayans. http://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theyucatantimes.com%2F2020%2F01%2Fthe-conquest-of-the-maya-a-long-battle%2F&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwib2rayqqj3AhUsg3IEHZrhAkYQFnoECAQQAg&usg=AOvVaw2DLCL7ol9pdqDYCXrd_LRE
In point of fact the Mayans and the Aztecs and Incans were all pretty savage in some regards, indulging in human sacrifice, and even some cannibalism. The Spanish may have been brutal but did not rise to the level of savagery of the Aztecs. That's why so many of the other natives supported Cortez when he showed up.
Also, tell me what they had that proved them civilized? The wheel? Nope. Written language? Nope. Did they work metals? Only silver, and that only for jewelry. Did any native Americans domesticate animals? Well, they domesticated the Llama and Alpaca, but only for basic carrying. There were no plows pulled by buffalo (which could have been domesticated as easily as oxen), no plows, for that matter.
The Aztecs and the Incans were not even remotely aware of each-other, unlike most civilized places in the ancient world (Rome and China knew of each-other and traded, for that matter so did Egypt and China).
There were no voyages of exploration. Nobody built any kind of truly sea-worthy craft. The MesoAmerican civilizations were essentially late stone age. I would add they also kept slaves as did the Europeans, and they indulged in ritual torture and the like - something NOT done by European slavemasters.
That's not to say they were completely lacking. The Mayans invented the concept of zero in mathematics independently. They did build good roads, and good aquaduct systems. There was a good deal for them to be proud of. But they just weren't in the same league as the Europeans.
There are reasons for that; among others, they never had a good staple crop except corn, which meant they had periods of famine when the corn failed. They didn't have horses. They didn't have good routes between the different civilizations. Perhaps most importantly, they didn't have a religoous tradition that helped to civilze them; they were stuck in pagan beliefs similar to the ancient world.
As I say, there are admirable qualities of these ancient civilizations in America, but in the end you cannot say they competed favorably with Europe, or Asia. They were savage and backward by and large and horribly despotic most of the time.
Posted by: Timothy Birdnow at
01:03 PM
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1
The Mayans may have been good at math, but they sucked at agriculture, which is why their civilization went belly-up. Whereas "white supremacist" America is so efficient at growing food crops that we even stuff some of them into our gasoline. Meanwhile, I've seen some shortages in the stores, but they always have corn.
Posted by: Dana Mathewson at April 24, 2022 02:27 PM (GIKgf)
2
Amen Dana.
When Japan decided to open to the world the first thing they did was study agriculture - not industry, but agriculture. They rightly understood that the first step to modernization was making a safe, secure food supply. It worked. Other countries who tried to modernize concentrated on industry and military technology and it failed.
Feeding your people is EVERYTHING.
When Japan decided to open to the world the first thing they did was study agriculture - not industry, but agriculture. They rightly understood that the first step to modernization was making a safe, secure food supply. It worked. Other countries who tried to modernize concentrated on industry and military technology and it failed.
Feeding your people is EVERYTHING.
Posted by: Timothy Birdnow at April 25, 2022 08:35 AM (B2AB/)
Posted by: Fake Watches at August 10, 2023 01:24 AM (OAWTR)
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