July 25, 2021
Arguing with Idiots Extreme Moron CRT Edition
Timothy Birdnow
I'm having an argument with a person who is a proud idiot, happy to make a total fool of himself and not even care he's doing so.
Tommy Step starts out bloviating about Critical Race Theory:
People who complain about CRT don’t understand what it means. It’s a complicated boogeyman for people who are uncomfortable with social sciences. The absurdity of governments dictating which facts and theories educators must discuss needs to stop if we are to escape the socialist totalitarian state all patriots fear. America is open to all ideas. Cancel culture .. especially of ideas is abhorrent to me. It’s a choice to live in ignorance and I choose not to (sic - no period.)
I reply:
No Tommy Step the problem is we DO understand what Critical Race Theory is and what it is about, which is why so many oppose it.It comes from Critical Theory which ultimately came from the Marxists at the Frankfurt School. It's Bolshevik to the core - and is being taught not as one rather angry and idiotic social theory but rather as the fundamental reality of America, and this to young kids who do not know any better. I would add all sorts of similar ideas are NOT taught in schools these days. Do they teach eugemics? National Socialism? Is phrenology taught as a science? Lysenkoism? So why is CRT, a horribly racist belief, any different? Nobody is stopping you from learning about it if you choose; what is being banned is school systems promoting it to young kids as the truth of America.
Tommy missteps again:
Timothy Birdnow so you don’t?
I retort:
Well then why don't you enlighten us if it is not what we know it to be Tommy Step. Give it a go.
Old Tommy can't:
You want me to light your strawman on fire? Nah. You can start by providing support for your claim. I'm not the one making a claim that something is true. You are. If you can't back it up, it's just words.
You think they don't teach kids about nazis (sic) in school? Funny. How foolish (sic again; no period.)
I reply:
No Tom; it is YOU making the extraordinary claim and so the burden of proof is on YOU to back up your assertion. I simply responded.It started out as Citical Theory, going back to Mancuso and the Frankfurt School (as I pointed out) which then morphed into Critical Legal Theory then Critical Race Theory. It's all Communist through and through. It was an attempt to find a new form of class struggle since the failure of Bolshevism and the class disparity didn't really exist in the West, most particularly in the U.S. Here is a very basic primer on it, but there are more in-depth works on Critical Theory. https://
This fool doesn't know when to quit:
What’s communist about it?
Do you know other academic/ivory tower theories too? Or only ones that have been around since at least the 90s that your tribe has now told you to care about and which your tribe would like to censor because you despise fee (sic) thought.You think they don't teach kids about nazis (sic) in school? If you want your kids to live in echo chambers with other fools… home school them.
Racists are scared of teaching real history.. I assume you’re not racist.. so why are you so insecure about it? I prefer to not live my life being influenced by the media to take up the fight for racists and oligarchs. But you do you..
I’m still trying to understand what about it is communist. I’d like to know your thoughts on that. Because that’s a bold assertion with no basis in anything you’ve said so far (no punctuation.)
Here is the kicker from old Tommy:
also your semicolon is improperly used. I only use semi colons appropriately. (Is that just part of a colon?) Other punctuation - I’m more liberal with. ….
Doug Thornburn replies:
Try reading the Imprimis handout, asshole.
Tommy replies:
Doug Thorburn we’re (sic) you trying to make a point, smart, nice, completely rational guy? Because it didn’t land. I suggest you try again unless you don’t cere (sic) to back up your wildly ridiculous claims from your low info echo chamber. I doubt you can. I doubt you will. I don’t think you cere (sic) about having points you can back up. It appears you only care if people who already agree with you agree with you. Kind of a waste of time.
Try reading Fahrenheit 451, smart guy. You seem to have an issue with the free exchange of ideas. That’s a snowflake, cancel culture, anti-American stance. I love my country. So we disagree. Because I care about the constitution and the values it ascribes. And I value free thought instead of cult mindsets. I hope you cut through at some point. You seem smarter than this.
I see you laughed at my "what’s communist about it?†Question. Feel free to explain. If you know. The basis for that silly assertion
Doug tries again:
Tommy Step Imprimis.
Step steps in it again:
Imprimis. And Gaslton's essay on the subject in Tuesday's WSJ (likely behind a paywall, but they often make their articles available to non-subscribers
The problem isn’t the source. It’s the construction of the whole thing as red meat intended to manipulate a submissive tribal base. Take a hard look. Individual Bias is bad enough indication that there’s little value to some opinions. It’s even more so when the bias is tribal. CRT has been around for 30+ years in academia. Now people want the government to ban the topic because some snowflakes are uncomfortable. Homeschooling should be the only option for those who want to cut their kids off from certain ideas because they are afraid of what will happen when they can’t keep a grip on their tribal bias. It’s all very sad and unamerican and I think all patriots know it needs to end. On all sides. All sides. The solution is NOT THE GOVERNMENT MANDATED CENSORSHIP AND CANCEL CULTURE YOU SO ADORE
I retort:
Tommy Step you say "racists are scared of teaching real history.." That's right and that is what CRT is - racist. BTW you really lost the discussion when ;you start nitpicking on this like semicolons. To quote Emerson "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." Now I presented one link out of dozens - you get to some basic research yourself you lazy bum. You ask what is communist about it and I explained it's roots in Critical Theory from Mancuso and the Frankfurt School and you say nothing about any of that. You are not debating - you are simply saying "nu-uh" like a child. I asked you to enlighten us if what you say is true but you didn't even make a single point - because you can't. CRT is Communist. It promotes the destruction of America which it claims is institutionally
Oh, and you don't understand apparently that it is the Left who is banning freedom of expression these days, not Conservatives. If you want to look at the book burners try looking at the people promoting CRT; they are openly trying to ban all sorts of "racist" things like "racist" math or "racist" literature like To Kill a Mockingbird. It is WE who are defending against the book burners buddy. Meanwhile they replace them with Communists like Howard Zinn. If you knew anything about this or were honest you would have to admit it. But I fear you are probably neither. .
Tommy Step you tell Doug Thornburn "It appears you only care if people who already agree with you agree with you. Kind of a waste of time" And yet you offer no evidence or information. We are the ones wasting our time with you. BTW you keep talking about racism but you probably know little about the history of the U.S. For example, the first slaveholder in the Virginia colony (and that makes him the first slaveholder in the proto-U.S. was a black man named Anthony Johnson who sued to keep his indentured servant John Casor from leaving. He argued Casor was his property and not just an indentured servant. So a black guy started slavery here. And did you know most slaves were sold to ship captains from Arab middlemen who bought them from their own people? I'll bet you are ignorant of that fact too. And I'll bet you don't know the U.S. ended the slave trade in 1808? Or that we ended slavery as an institution before the Portuguese, or the Spanish or Dutch? (They ended the slavery at home but kept it in their colonies in the Indies and Brazil until after the U.S. banned it.) Did you know that slavery STILL exists in many parts of Africa? It was a common institution there, as well as among Native Americans, as well as among just about every People on Earth. The Vikings enslaved the Irish and a bunch of others. The English enslaved Irish too and made them go to places like Barbados. I imagine you know none of this or you wouldn't be promoting a racist white-hating Bolshevik ideology like CRT.
Tommy Step you say "love my country." No you don't. If you love something or someone you don't seek to fundamenatlly change them at the core. That is what CRT seeks to do. So don't give us that kind of bullshit. Admit you hate America.
Oh and another thing; you seem to not understand the difference between the right to freedom of speech and to allow radical and insane ideology taught to children. That has no bearing on the First Amendment. You seem ignorant of what the First Amendment is about. May as well promote the Nazis as heroes and have a Hitler Day. Somehow I think we could all agree that would be absolutely unacceptable but we can teach children that White People are inherently evil. Nice.
Doug replies:
All of your comments are spot-on, but this is the best. Thanks for doing good battle with him in honest fashion. I think he is intellectually dishonest, which is deeply concerning. He's a fellow member of some tax pro groups and occasionally spouts something useful, so I don't want to ban him. In the future, then, on other threads, I will try to simply delete stupid comments. I don't want to do that once some worthwhile responses are posted, however.
I respond to Doug:
Thanks Doug Thornburn. I'm glad he is logical on some things; he clearly is completely lost on this, and doesn't have a shred of fact to back up his argument. I rather suspected he was a teenager from the vapid responses.
But this fool won't give up:
What’s radical or insane about it? Could you define the "idealogy†accurately? When in the 90s did you start complaining about children studying social sciences? What other ideas would you like the government to ban being discussed?
Your position - coupled with your view that kids should be ignorant and only taught what mommy and daddy want, as mandated by the state. Would seem to allow for the possibility that you’ll one day be ok with governments banning schools (including private ones) from even mentioning the Holocaust. Something about making catholic/
What villains are being promoted here? What’s the hitler equivalent in your example? I’ll wait. And wait. And wait. And wait. To see if you have a logical response
I reply:
There are five basic tenants of CRT:
https://cssj.utk.edu/divisions/critical-race-collective/
1. The centrality of race and racism to American society. (Something that is demonstrably false as we've elected a black President, a black Vice President, multiple black representatives and appointed multiple black judges including a very good black Supreme Court Justice. Also, black people are taking dangerous journeys to get to America, hardly a place completely dominated by racism.)
2.Challenge to Dominant Ideology. (Now what do you suppose that dominant ideology is? Capitalism and liberal democratic republicanism.)
3. Centrality of Experiential Knowledge (Meaning if someone once pulled you over for a traffic ticket it was racism and not that you were, oh, I don't know, violating the traffic laws. It means how someone PERCEIVES a situation is more important than the actual facts of the matter - sort of like your way of reasoning Tommy.)
4. Interdisciplinary Perspective (This is pure Marxist monism. The idea that everything is entangled with everything else comes predates Marx but was at the root of Marx's ideology.)
5. Commitment to Social Justice (SJ is a buzzword for discrimination against groups they feel deserve to be discriminated against, and giving special privilege to those who haven't earned it but rather based on race. And this is the core of the revolutionary efforts to fundamentally remake America.)
This is clearly a revolutionary movement, an anti-white revolutionary movement. Seehttps://amgreatness.com/2021/06/27/critical-race-theory-is-just-anti-white-racism/ and https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2012/03/critical_race_theory_a_cult_of_anti-white_resentment.html
Now that is the last I'm going to do to educate you. If you are too lazy to bother learning the basics of this that is not my problem. But I fear you have no interest at all in what is in CRT. You are just wasting everybody's time.
I've give you far more than you deserve. Now it's time for you to either put up or shut up. Give me YOUR definitions, and YOUR evidence that it's just fine to teach this vile doctrine to children with taxpayer money.
You can't. And you know you can't.
https://amgreatness.com/2021/06/27/critical-race-theory-is-just-anti-white-racism/
And Tommy nobody is saying CRT can't be taught as an elective at the college level. But it is grossly inappropriate to teach it in grammar school. BTW Mommy and Daddy, who you so obviously disdain have every damned right to determine what will be taught in their schools you oaf. We didn't used to teach children about a lot of adult issues until they were ready to understand. What YOU are advocating is not education but indoctrination. It's like the Hitler Youth or the Young Patriots in the Soviet Union. We don't teach string theory to nine year olds, nor do we teach about pedophilia or whatnot (or we didn't used to.) I guess you want that in the schools too, eh?
I'm having an argument with a person who is a proud idiot, happy to make a total fool of himself and not even care he's doing so.
Tommy Step starts out bloviating about Critical Race Theory:
People who complain about CRT don’t understand what it means. It’s a complicated boogeyman for people who are uncomfortable with social sciences. The absurdity of governments dictating which facts and theories educators must discuss needs to stop if we are to escape the socialist totalitarian state all patriots fear. America is open to all ideas. Cancel culture .. especially of ideas is abhorrent to me. It’s a choice to live in ignorance and I choose not to (sic - no period.)
I reply:
No Tommy Step the problem is we DO understand what Critical Race Theory is and what it is about, which is why so many oppose it.It comes from Critical Theory which ultimately came from the Marxists at the Frankfurt School. It's Bolshevik to the core - and is being taught not as one rather angry and idiotic social theory but rather as the fundamental reality of America, and this to young kids who do not know any better. I would add all sorts of similar ideas are NOT taught in schools these days. Do they teach eugemics? National Socialism? Is phrenology taught as a science? Lysenkoism? So why is CRT, a horribly racist belief, any different? Nobody is stopping you from learning about it if you choose; what is being banned is school systems promoting it to young kids as the truth of America.
Tommy missteps again:
Timothy Birdnow so you don’t?
I retort:
Well then why don't you enlighten us if it is not what we know it to be Tommy Step. Give it a go.
Old Tommy can't:
You want me to light your strawman on fire? Nah. You can start by providing support for your claim. I'm not the one making a claim that something is true. You are. If you can't back it up, it's just words.
You think they don't teach kids about nazis (sic) in school? Funny. How foolish (sic again; no period.)
I reply:
No Tom; it is YOU making the extraordinary claim and so the burden of proof is on YOU to back up your assertion. I simply responded.It started out as Citical Theory, going back to Mancuso and the Frankfurt School (as I pointed out) which then morphed into Critical Legal Theory then Critical Race Theory. It's all Communist through and through. It was an attempt to find a new form of class struggle since the failure of Bolshevism and the class disparity didn't really exist in the West, most particularly in the U.S. Here is a very basic primer on it, but there are more in-depth works on Critical Theory. https://
This fool doesn't know when to quit:
What’s communist about it?
Do you know other academic/ivory tower theories too? Or only ones that have been around since at least the 90s that your tribe has now told you to care about and which your tribe would like to censor because you despise fee (sic) thought.You think they don't teach kids about nazis (sic) in school? If you want your kids to live in echo chambers with other fools… home school them.
Racists are scared of teaching real history.. I assume you’re not racist.. so why are you so insecure about it? I prefer to not live my life being influenced by the media to take up the fight for racists and oligarchs. But you do you..
I’m still trying to understand what about it is communist. I’d like to know your thoughts on that. Because that’s a bold assertion with no basis in anything you’ve said so far (no punctuation.)
Here is the kicker from old Tommy:
also your semicolon is improperly used. I only use semi colons appropriately. (Is that just part of a colon?) Other punctuation - I’m more liberal with. ….
Doug Thornburn replies:
Try reading the Imprimis handout, asshole.
Tommy replies:
Doug Thorburn we’re (sic) you trying to make a point, smart, nice, completely rational guy? Because it didn’t land. I suggest you try again unless you don’t cere (sic) to back up your wildly ridiculous claims from your low info echo chamber. I doubt you can. I doubt you will. I don’t think you cere (sic) about having points you can back up. It appears you only care if people who already agree with you agree with you. Kind of a waste of time.
Try reading Fahrenheit 451, smart guy. You seem to have an issue with the free exchange of ideas. That’s a snowflake, cancel culture, anti-American stance. I love my country. So we disagree. Because I care about the constitution and the values it ascribes. And I value free thought instead of cult mindsets. I hope you cut through at some point. You seem smarter than this.
I see you laughed at my "what’s communist about it?†Question. Feel free to explain. If you know. The basis for that silly assertion
Doug tries again:
Tommy Step Imprimis.
Step steps in it again:
Imprimis. And Gaslton's essay on the subject in Tuesday's WSJ (likely behind a paywall, but they often make their articles available to non-subscribers
The problem isn’t the source. It’s the construction of the whole thing as red meat intended to manipulate a submissive tribal base. Take a hard look. Individual Bias is bad enough indication that there’s little value to some opinions. It’s even more so when the bias is tribal. CRT has been around for 30+ years in academia. Now people want the government to ban the topic because some snowflakes are uncomfortable. Homeschooling should be the only option for those who want to cut their kids off from certain ideas because they are afraid of what will happen when they can’t keep a grip on their tribal bias. It’s all very sad and unamerican and I think all patriots know it needs to end. On all sides. All sides. The solution is NOT THE GOVERNMENT MANDATED CENSORSHIP AND CANCEL CULTURE YOU SO ADORE
I retort:
Tommy Step you say "racists are scared of teaching real history.." That's right and that is what CRT is - racist. BTW you really lost the discussion when ;you start nitpicking on this like semicolons. To quote Emerson "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." Now I presented one link out of dozens - you get to some basic research yourself you lazy bum. You ask what is communist about it and I explained it's roots in Critical Theory from Mancuso and the Frankfurt School and you say nothing about any of that. You are not debating - you are simply saying "nu-uh" like a child. I asked you to enlighten us if what you say is true but you didn't even make a single point - because you can't. CRT is Communist. It promotes the destruction of America which it claims is institutionally
Oh, and you don't understand apparently that it is the Left who is banning freedom of expression these days, not Conservatives. If you want to look at the book burners try looking at the people promoting CRT; they are openly trying to ban all sorts of "racist" things like "racist" math or "racist" literature like To Kill a Mockingbird. It is WE who are defending against the book burners buddy. Meanwhile they replace them with Communists like Howard Zinn. If you knew anything about this or were honest you would have to admit it. But I fear you are probably neither. .
Tommy Step you tell Doug Thornburn "It appears you only care if people who already agree with you agree with you. Kind of a waste of time" And yet you offer no evidence or information. We are the ones wasting our time with you. BTW you keep talking about racism but you probably know little about the history of the U.S. For example, the first slaveholder in the Virginia colony (and that makes him the first slaveholder in the proto-U.S. was a black man named Anthony Johnson who sued to keep his indentured servant John Casor from leaving. He argued Casor was his property and not just an indentured servant. So a black guy started slavery here. And did you know most slaves were sold to ship captains from Arab middlemen who bought them from their own people? I'll bet you are ignorant of that fact too. And I'll bet you don't know the U.S. ended the slave trade in 1808? Or that we ended slavery as an institution before the Portuguese, or the Spanish or Dutch? (They ended the slavery at home but kept it in their colonies in the Indies and Brazil until after the U.S. banned it.) Did you know that slavery STILL exists in many parts of Africa? It was a common institution there, as well as among Native Americans, as well as among just about every People on Earth. The Vikings enslaved the Irish and a bunch of others. The English enslaved Irish too and made them go to places like Barbados. I imagine you know none of this or you wouldn't be promoting a racist white-hating Bolshevik ideology like CRT.
Tommy Step you say "love my country." No you don't. If you love something or someone you don't seek to fundamenatlly change them at the core. That is what CRT seeks to do. So don't give us that kind of bullshit. Admit you hate America.
Oh and another thing; you seem to not understand the difference between the right to freedom of speech and to allow radical and insane ideology taught to children. That has no bearing on the First Amendment. You seem ignorant of what the First Amendment is about. May as well promote the Nazis as heroes and have a Hitler Day. Somehow I think we could all agree that would be absolutely unacceptable but we can teach children that White People are inherently evil. Nice.
Doug replies:
All of your comments are spot-on, but this is the best. Thanks for doing good battle with him in honest fashion. I think he is intellectually dishonest, which is deeply concerning. He's a fellow member of some tax pro groups and occasionally spouts something useful, so I don't want to ban him. In the future, then, on other threads, I will try to simply delete stupid comments. I don't want to do that once some worthwhile responses are posted, however.
I respond to Doug:
Thanks Doug Thornburn. I'm glad he is logical on some things; he clearly is completely lost on this, and doesn't have a shred of fact to back up his argument. I rather suspected he was a teenager from the vapid responses.
But this fool won't give up:
What’s radical or insane about it? Could you define the "idealogy†accurately? When in the 90s did you start complaining about children studying social sciences? What other ideas would you like the government to ban being discussed?
Your position - coupled with your view that kids should be ignorant and only taught what mommy and daddy want, as mandated by the state. Would seem to allow for the possibility that you’ll one day be ok with governments banning schools (including private ones) from even mentioning the Holocaust. Something about making catholic/
What villains are being promoted here? What’s the hitler equivalent in your example? I’ll wait. And wait. And wait. And wait. To see if you have a logical response
I reply:
There are five basic tenants of CRT:
https://cssj.utk.edu/divisions/critical-race-collective/
1. The centrality of race and racism to American society. (Something that is demonstrably false as we've elected a black President, a black Vice President, multiple black representatives and appointed multiple black judges including a very good black Supreme Court Justice. Also, black people are taking dangerous journeys to get to America, hardly a place completely dominated by racism.)
2.Challenge to Dominant Ideology. (Now what do you suppose that dominant ideology is? Capitalism and liberal democratic republicanism.)
3. Centrality of Experiential Knowledge (Meaning if someone once pulled you over for a traffic ticket it was racism and not that you were, oh, I don't know, violating the traffic laws. It means how someone PERCEIVES a situation is more important than the actual facts of the matter - sort of like your way of reasoning Tommy.)
4. Interdisciplinary Perspective (This is pure Marxist monism. The idea that everything is entangled with everything else comes predates Marx but was at the root of Marx's ideology.)
5. Commitment to Social Justice (SJ is a buzzword for discrimination against groups they feel deserve to be discriminated against, and giving special privilege to those who haven't earned it but rather based on race. And this is the core of the revolutionary efforts to fundamentally remake America.)
This is clearly a revolutionary movement, an anti-white revolutionary movement. Seehttps://amgreatness.com/2021/06/27/critical-race-theory-is-just-anti-white-racism/ and https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2012/03/critical_race_theory_a_cult_of_anti-white_resentment.html
Now that is the last I'm going to do to educate you. If you are too lazy to bother learning the basics of this that is not my problem. But I fear you have no interest at all in what is in CRT. You are just wasting everybody's time.
I've give you far more than you deserve. Now it's time for you to either put up or shut up. Give me YOUR definitions, and YOUR evidence that it's just fine to teach this vile doctrine to children with taxpayer money.
You can't. And you know you can't.
https://amgreatness.com/2021/06/27/critical-race-theory-is-just-anti-white-racism/
And Tommy nobody is saying CRT can't be taught as an elective at the college level. But it is grossly inappropriate to teach it in grammar school. BTW Mommy and Daddy, who you so obviously disdain have every damned right to determine what will be taught in their schools you oaf. We didn't used to teach children about a lot of adult issues until they were ready to understand. What YOU are advocating is not education but indoctrination. It's like the Hitler Youth or the Young Patriots in the Soviet Union. We don't teach string theory to nine year olds, nor do we teach about pedophilia or whatnot (or we didn't used to.) I guess you want that in the schools too, eh?
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